For all you "20 ampers"

[bikeindy]

I have never seen a receptacle looped in 12 and melted unless someone forgot to tighten a screw which was obviosly backed out.

Let me help you see, I have some photos here...

That is #12 and the screws were tight, the breaker had not tripped and this was tied to lighting in the kitchen back hall and bathroom, this receptacle was in the garage with a whole lot of outdoor Christmas lights on it. Now thats a great design for electrical garage receptacle on the same 20 amp circuit as the lights just inside the door.

Moderators note: Edited to fix img link

 

[quogueelectric]

Dont hate the comercial electrician because he puts 12 wire in according to the spec. Hate the Architect/E.Engineer that put it there.

 

[peter d]

duplicate.........

 

[bikeindy]

Dont hate the comercial electrician because he puts 12 wire in according to the spec. Hate the Architect/E.Engineer that put it there.

WHAT!? I think you got some bad milk dude.

 

[peter d]

Dont hate the comercial electrician because he puts 12 wire in according to the spec.

What I hate is the fact that some people think that using all #12 magically makes for a "better" residential premises wiring system based on myths and misconceptions.

What I hate is when people do things just for the sake of doing them, without thinking them through or thinking about why they are doing something.

 

[quogueelectric]

Let me help you see, I have some photos here...

That is #12 and the screws were tight, the breaker had not tripped and this was tied to lighting in the kitchen back hall and bathroom, this receptacle was in the garage with a whole lot of outdoor Christmas lights on it. Now thats a great design for electrical garage receptacle on the same 20 amp circuit as the lights just inside the door.

Moderators note: Edited to fix img link

Did anyone but me notice that the screws were wrapped backwards on this recepacle?? Bottom wrap looks like it is halfway out other one is too badly burned to tell but the weakest link is going to generate the most heat.

 

[BryanMD]

Let me help you see, I have some photos here...

That is #12 and the screws were tight, the breaker had not tripped and this was tied to lighting in the kitchen back hall and bathroom, this receptacle was in the garage with a whole lot of outdoor Christmas lights on it. Now thats a great design for electrical garage receptacle on the same 20 amp circuit as the lights just inside the door.

Do you know what caused it to melt?

I doubt it's related, but that box is awfully far back from the GWB -no mudring etc.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Sadly, it's rapidly going down the drain with a failing economy, rampant gov't corruption, and massive amounts of foreclosures.

At least you still have a governor.

 

[quogueelectric]

At least you still have a governor.

Jay Leno is going to have a ball with this.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

So 10 pages of nonsense and the best argument for not using #14 and 15 amp ciruits is ignorance? :-?

I'm sold. :grin:

It's not nonsense. It's inconsequential banter.

Personally, I favor permanent lighting on a 14 awg 15a circuit, and 12 awg 20a circuit for receptacles.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Let me help you see, I have some photos here...

That is #12 and the screws were tight, the breaker had not tripped and this was tied to lighting in the kitchen back hall and bathroom, this receptacle was in the garage with a whole lot of outdoor Christmas lights on it. Now thats a great design for electrical garage receptacle on the same 20 amp circuit as the lights just inside the door.

Moderators note: Edited to fix img link

It's not clear from that picture that the guage of the wire had anything to do with the failure. I'd say it's more likely the failure began with the extention cord, which was probably overloaded, and the melting began with the cord cap.

 

[bikeindy]

It's not clear from that picture that the guage of the wire had anything to do with the failure.

Exactly!

I'd say it's more likely the failure began with the extention cord, which was probably overloaded, and the melting began with the cord cap.

Sure or maybe the wire was slightly loose, as someone pointed out the are wrapped backward, maybe a homeowner. My point is that #12 didn't stop the problem, it comes down to craftmanship.

 

[bikeindy]

Do you know what caused it to melt?

I doubt it's related, but that box is awfully far back from the GWB -no mudring etc.

5 million Christmas lights were the problem. we fixed all the issues with the box.

 

[jaylectricity]

To Jaylectrcity....Being a Mass guy you should know that smoke detectors are required to be fed from a branch circuit that also supplies other equipment.

Maybe you know this but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

To tell you the truth I am a little ignorant on the MA changes to the NEC. I remember being taught that we should put the smokes on a downstairs lighting circuit, but that was before the code required battery backups.

I'm gonna go to the code refresher course for the 2008 early this year and I will certainly put that on my agenda of questions to ask.

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On a separate note...since I've lived in MA I've been schooled on RI as being "mob-ridden" which might explain corruption.

Is there still a mob down there?

 

[quogueelectric]

To tell you the truth I am a little ignorant on the MA changes to the NEC. I remember being taught that we should put the smokes on a downstairs lighting circuit, but that was before the code required battery backups.

I'm gonna go to the code refresher course for the 2008 early this year and I will certainly put that on my agenda of questions to ask.

--------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note...since I've lived in MA I've been schooled on RI as being "mob-ridden" which might explain corruption.

Is there still a mob down there?

Nope they all moved to Scottsdale, AZ :wink: :wink: I dont see a single mobster left here in NY.

 

[hey_poolboy]

Man, go to work for a day and look what I miss.

I actually put the smokes on a 15A AFCI. That particular town has decided smokes must be on their own circuit. It's the only 15 in the box.

 

[e57]

What I hate is the fact that some people think that using all #12 magically makes for a "better" residential premises wiring system based on myths and misconceptions.

It will magically make it better at roughly 14.9 amps.... Been there.... Actually I was there today....

 

[cadpoint]

U Go BikeIndy ...

U Go BikeIndy ...

Now I watched this thread line go last night, for me its always enjoyable reading.
& I've seen this a few time, these thought provoking threads and still on.

I think you'll nailed it down... .... OH and seems the second half of the hour is more productive ...

9:02 orginal post. "For all you "20 Ampers""
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.... and still going

and really the fastest Thread I've ever witnessed, Keep Typing...

 

[brantmacga]

You also install one more AFCI then do I (until the '08 kicks in).

As far as the backstabed failing, they will - just wait. It's not the installation, it's the poor design of the recep.

yes, but i charge for that afci. . .


second. . . maybe i've just been lucky so far.

 

[geezer]

This most likely has been discussed before, but since it has come up in this thread and is related, I will ask. A couple of posts have mentioned using a 15A circuit for a microwave/vent hood unit. I have seen many of these units with 12.5A ratings. Would the branch circuit load limitations of 210.23 prohibit this cord connected, fastened in place appliance from being on a 15A circuit? (Code reference is from 2002 NEC)