For all you "20 ampers"

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For all you "20 ampers"

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LarryFine said:
I've never had any of my work become a problem with backstabbing, because I never let my monkeys do it.

On many a service call, I have pulled receptacles out that left the stripped ends pinting at me like 4-prong plugs.
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I don't allow it not because it is not just a human error problem but a mechanical one as well.We do alot of service work so I see this often even in recent construction.
 
In some areas it is required by law to use nothing smaller than #12.

One evening I had a call from an inspector from one of these areas. It seems his daughter was having a home built in an area that allows #14, but he had no idea of this. He walked in and saw the #14 and flipped out. As I had built a good reputation with him over the years, I was the first one who he called.

After I calmed him down and explained to him that it is ok and NOT against code in the area the house was being built. He seemed to finally get it, but he wasn't real happy about it.
 
quogueelectric said:
Yeah that is sooooooooooo safe you are really winning me over with that argument. Why not just put everything on one circuit that is a great Idea., Obviosly you dont hold license or insurance. Keep trying.
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:roll:

Please actually read what I say before you make ignorant, stupid comments. Where did I say that I wired apartments with one 15 amp circuit? :confused:

I said that I REWIRED apartments where the original wiring was BX or K&T and there was only one 15A circuit, like they wired most houses that were built back in the early 1900's. When I rewired them I brought them up to the current code that was in force at the time.

Oh, and I have 2 licenses in 2 states and I carry insurance.
 
peter d said:
:roll:

Please actually read what I say before you make ignorant, stupid comments. Where did I say that I wired apartments with one 15 amp circuit? :confused:

I said that I REWIRED apartments where the original wiring was BX or K&T and there was only one 15A circuit, like they wired most houses that were built back in the early 1900's. When I rewired them I brought them up to the current code that was in force at the time.

Oh, and I have 2 licenses in 2 states and I carry insurance.
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Well, if you consider RI a state... :grin:
 
peter d said:
Oh, and I have 2 licenses in 2 states
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I have more licenses than that.

I have a drivers License
I have a hunting license
I have a fishing license
and my dog has a dog license ( why he needs a license to be a dog I'll never understand, I thought he was born one ). :grin: :grin: :grin:
 
chris500 said:
In some areas it is required by law to use nothing smaller than #12.
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The reason being some dumb ass half witted narrow minded I know better than the rest of the world where #14 and 15 amp circuits are just fine electrician found a way to get it passed. :rolleyes:
 
To Jaylectrcity....Being a Mass guy you should know that smoke detectors are required to be fed from a branch circuit that also supplies other equipment.

Maybe you know this but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
 
peter d said:
:roll:

Please actually read what I say before you make ignorant, stupid comments. Where did I say that I wired apartments with one 15 amp circuit? :confused:

I said that I REWIRED apartments where the original wiring was BX or K&T and there was only one 15A circuit, like they wired most houses that were built back in the early 1900's. When I rewired them I brought them up to the current code that was in force at the time.

Oh, and I have 2 licenses in 2 states and I carry insurance.
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Please excuse my Ignorance and Stupidity I misunderstood the post. After rereading I more clearly understand your intent.
The people who are trained residential for most of thier career are going to favor 14 wire it is cheaper faster to install and easier to handle. Serves the purpose with few problems in most modern instalations. It is code compliant why not love it.
The people who were trained commercial/industrial used mostly 12 wire for branch ckts for duplex receptacles and lighting. They probably only see 14 nm on the weekend moonlight jobs. They are probably going to feel it is cheesy.
They are not looking to hurt anyones feelings that is a 15 amp lover they are just used to a higher standard and feel that anything less than a 12 wire 20 amp circuit is just wrong except for control ckts.
BTW I will be taking my CT E-1 exam shortly so there. Lots of work going on in the Bridgeport area and I mean lots.
 
quogueelectric said:
The people who were trained commercial/industrial used mostly 12 wire for branch ckts for duplex receptacles and lighting. They probably only see 14 nm on the weekend moonlight jobs. They are probably going to feel it is cheesy.
.
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So 10 pages of nonsense and the best argument for not using #14 and 15 amp ciruits is ignorance? :-?

I'm sold. :grin:
 
quogueelectric said:
BTW I will be taking my CT E-1 exam shortly so there. Lots of work going on in the Bridgeport area and I mean lots.
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Good for you. :)

I have no desire to be involved with anything in or near Bridgeport, but I wish you all the best with that.
 
quogueelectric said:
They are not looking to hurt anyones feelings that is a 15 amp lover they are just used to a higher standard and feel that anything less than a 12 wire 20 amp circuit is just wrong except for control ckts.
BTW I will be taking my CT E-1 exam shortly so there. Lots of work going on in the Bridgeport area and I mean lots.
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Man I have done all the kind of work you talk about and more in the electrical/ electronics field. #12 is not a "higher standard" and saying it is, is plainly a cop out to not really understanding how to design a good electrical system for a home. In industrial and commercial it makes sence to run #12 for everything the runs are longer and tend to carry a higher load anyway, not to mention it is most likely spec to do so. If that is your reasoning why not pipe the whole house and run stranded. They do that in some areas. I am still waiting to find out how many runs you plan on that 2000 SF home so I can do a comparison.
 
bikeindy said:
Man I have done all the kind of work you talk about and more in the electrical/ electronics field. #12 is not a "higher standard" and saying it is, is plainly a cop out to not really understanding how to design a good electrical system for a home. In industrial and commercial it makes sence to run #12 for everything the runs are longer and tend to carry a higher load anyway, not to mention it is most likely spec to do so. If that is your reasoning why not pipe the whole house and run stranded. They do that in some areas. I am still waiting to find out how many runs you plan on that 2000 SF home so I can do a comparison.
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Some guys I have worked with have piped their whole house out then they have come to me to try to figure out how to get through a residential inspection that they just failed.
You are entitled to your opinion as also I am entitled to my opinion.
I was roping houses in the early 70s in alluminum when I was 12 working for my Father. Everyone thought that was fine then.
I dont think that now. Opinions are subject to change all the time.
My opinions are based on my real life experiences of pulling many melted duplex receptacles out of a wall that were backstabed in 14 at the brink of fire. I have never seen a receptacle looped in 12 and melted unless someone forgot to tighten a screw which was obviosly backed out.
 
I am amazed how almost every "hater" of #14 always mentions back-stabs as part of their reasoning.

Is the real problem the size of the conductor or the connection?
 
jim dungar said:
I am amazed how almost every "hater" of #14 always mentions back-stabs as part of their reasoning.

Is the real problem the size of the conductor or the connection?
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I am not a 14 hater I am a 12 lover There is a difference.
 
The truth be known, most 14 haters simply have no understanding of residential circuits and how they are lightly loaded.

I always hear the horror stories but, after 35 years in the trade I have yet to see #14 causing these problems they talk about. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Roger
 
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