For all you "20 ampers"

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For all you "20 ampers"

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mdshunk said:
The main difference between the 20 ampers and the 15's is 5 amps.
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Let's see...five from zero...no wait...carry the one...no, 2 becomes a 1, carry the 10...hold on...20 minus,no...........I'll have to get back to you on that.
 
jaylectricity said:
It's not just the cost of materials...it's the extra labor to deal with the 12 wire. If you have to make up every single box with 12 wire it takes longer and wears down the workers faster. Plus you have to account for box fill. So you have to buy deeper boxes or have more box locations which is also more labor.

14 wire is for some things, 12 wire is for others, 10 is for a few things, etc...
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Poor baby got a blister devicing out 12 wire OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH I feel your pain.
 
peter d said:
Me too, I've rewired a bunch of old apartments that were like that, usually the ancient BX or K&T that served the entire apartment. I'm sure you see this all the time as you're from New England too.

Usually what I see is that the only other circuits might be for the furnace, and maybe if someone was smart they added another circuit for the kitchen counter or fridge, but not very often.
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Yeah that is sooooooooooo safe you are really winning me over with that argument. Why not just put everything on one circuit that is a great Idea., Obviosly you dont hold license or insurance. Keep trying.
 
quogueelectric said:
Yeah that is sooooooooooo safe you are really winning me over with that argument. Why not just put everything on one circuit that is a great Idea., Obviosly you dont hold license or insurance. Keep trying.
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As a fellow, may I advise you to put the bottle down?
 
jaylectricity said:
So then what was your point about putting the smokes on the master bedroom circuit to keep them conspicuous? Like you just said, if you change the batteries there will be no chirp...but if you don't there WILL be a chirp to remind you.
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It is called TOWN code as in they are the AHJ for me.WHY you want to learn them??? Go ahead on YOUR job. Let me know how that works out for you JAY. edited for spelling cause it bothered Jay.
 
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quogueelectric said:
It is called TOWN code as in they are the AHD for me.WHY you want to learn them??? Go ahead on YOUR job. Let me know how that works out for you JAY.
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I'm going on common sense...the written word of another usually agrees.

Also you typed "AHD" in your excitement to put me down when you meant "AHJ" so why don't you calm down?
 
jaylectricity said:
Also you typed "AHD" in your excitement to put me down when you meant "AHJ" so why don't you calm down?
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Late at night tiredness starts to get to you. I'm certainly guilty. All I have at my house to make a drink could only make Red Bull and Listerine bomb shot, and I think that would be pretty gross. I think other people's houses might be better supplied... obviously.
 
also, you can't put the smokes on just any 20A circuit. they have to be on an AFCI circuit.


Why would anyone in their right mind put smokes on a AFCI circuit. These are life safety devices. And should not lose power due to a "nuisance" trip. They should also be on their own circuit, so Mr. HO isn't overloading the circuit with some new fangled gizmo and tripping the breaker. I know what the NEC says. But the NEC has been wrong before. Who do you think is pushing the AFCI breaker code? Put the smokes on a 15A circuit if a 20A is too big (when I was first in business and "had" to wire new houses this is what I did).
 
Okie Sparky said:
Why would anyone in their right mind put smokes on a AFCI circuit.
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Because they are professionals and follow the NEC. Under the 2005 and 2008 NEC smokes have to be on an AFCI circuit.

I know what the NEC says. But the NEC has been wrong before.
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Wrong or not we have to follow the code.

Who do you think is pushing the AFCI breaker code?
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We know and it does not change anything.
 
Okie Sparky said:
also, you can't put the smokes on just any 20A circuit. they have to be on an AFCI circuit.


Why would anyone in their right mind put smokes on a AFCI circuit. These are life safety devices. And should not lose power due to a "nuisance" trip. They should also be on their own circuit, so Mr. HO isn't overloading the circuit with some new fangled gizmo and tripping the breaker. I know what the NEC says. But the NEC has been wrong before. Who do you think is pushing the AFCI breaker code? Put the smokes on a 15A circuit if a 20A is too big (when I was first in business and "had" to wire new houses this is what I did).
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Smokes are required to have a battery back up, so a nuisance trip should have no effect on them. You do pull permits don't you? Right or wrong in our opinion won't boil coffee, following the AHJ's interpretation of the NEC is the only way to get the inspection passed and a CO.
 
Local Code here requires #12 so I use very little #14. I only use it when extending or refeeding existing old circuts.

I get the impression from some of the earlier posts that #14 is easier to pull and trim. I can see it being a quicker if you backstab but I only backstab GFCI's. My question is, if you don't backstab is #14 really that much of a time saver to pull and trim versus #12?

Just curious

Jeff
 
jaylectricity said:
I've seen entire apartments supplied with one 15 amp circuit. Now that may not be desirable, but I have no problem running 15 amp circuits for living rooms and lighting.

Right now I have a computer, two sound mixers, DSL modem, printer, monitor, speakers, musical keyboard, bass amplifier, DVD player, VCR, cable box, stereo, television, XBox, lamp, and fan on a single 15 amp circuit. I've had them all on at the same time allowing for many people to entertain themselves in various ways and have never had a problem.
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Are these Federal Pacific Breakers? :)
 
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brantmacga said:
i have always backstabbed and had a total of ZERO callbacks because of a failed connection, nor have i ever had a service call for someone else's backstabbed connection failing. you must have monkeys installing the receptacles up there. :)
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I've never had any of my work become a problem with backstabbing, because I never let my monkeys do it.

On many a service call, I have pulled receptacles out that left the stripped ends pinting at me like 4-prong plugs.
 
LarryFine said:
On many a service call, I have pulled receptacles out that left the stripped ends pinting at me like 4-prong plugs.
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I have had to replace every receptacle in a room that was back stabbed.
I don't now if this was just a bad bach or what.

I go on many service calls where there are one or two that have gone bad in the house.

They do make for repeat business.:grin: :grin:
 
make the circuit fit the demand , over kill is not the best, or we would use 8 guage for everything

a half horse motor on a 50 amp circuit is not protecting the motor
even though the circuit is protected by its breaker
 
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