Gas Pipe Bonding, Particularly CSST

augie47 said:
You can find out more than you want to know about bonding CSST here:


www.iccsafe.org

CodeNotes: Bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing gas piping systems - ICC

Lee Clifton, senior director of PMG Resources for the International Code Council, discusses the bonding of CSST gas piping systems in this latest CodeNotes.
www.iccsafe.org www.iccsafe.org
Click to expand...



Thank you. Answers two Questions I had: 1. The bonding system cannot be separate for the gas line. 2. The bonding system must connect to
the electrical grounding electrode in a meaningful, effective way.
The American Water Works Association wants grounding taken off water pipes and one (among other reasons) is that workers have been shocked
and hurt by electricity running through the water pipes. My question if you make a gas pipe an effective ground fault path does this not make a potential for disaster, you are not dealing with water, but gas?
 
Rjryan said:
When you attach a bonding wire to the grounding buss of an electrical panel, it is electrical. A plumber is not licensed to be in an electrical panel
and is in no way is qualified to make the proper connection. What happens if the plumber were to hook it the neutral buss? Touches something hot in the panel.
Saying it is not an electrical problem, is ignoring the elephant in the room. Like any other piece of equipment gas CSST piping needs to be accessed by an electrician.
Yellow needs bonding, black does not, if questions arise refer to the installer or manufacturer.
Like Mike's Expert's always say, equipment must be installed to the Manufactures instructions.
The manufactures instruction are clear, yellow CSST must be bonded back to the panel.
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Which IMO is or at least should be a reason we are required to install the intersystem bonding termination - then others can access the grounding system without entering panelboards, disconnects, etc. Additional bonding requirements for CSST that go beyond NEC general requirements for gas piping are not an electrician's problem, they are the gas piping installers problem all an electrician should need to do is provide them a safe access point to connect to the electrical system.
 
kwired said:
Which IMO is or at least should be a reason we are required to install the intersystem bonding termination - then others can access the grounding system without entering panelboards, disconnects, etc
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Is the bonding jumper for CSST permitted on the IBT?
 
infinity said:
Is the bonding jumper for CSST permitted on the IBT?
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I don' t have access to all my NECs at the moment but at one seminar we were told 250.94 had been rephrased to note it was ONLY to be used for communication.
 
augie47 said:
I don' t have access to all my NECs at the moment but at one seminar we were told 250.94 had been rephrased to note it was ONLY to be used for communication.
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I looked at definitions in the 2020 NEC: Intersystem Bonding Termination "Device that provides a means for connecting intersystem bonding
conductors for communication systems to the grounding electrode system." Note says it covers Chapter 8 and 770.93. both of which deal with communications.
Thanks you, by the definition, I believe you are right, it would be necessary to connect CSST Bonding to the electrical panel grounding electrode conductor, not the IBT.
 
augie47 said:
About 90% of the connections I see are accomplished by a split bolt connection to the grounding electrode conductor to the ground rod.
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Yes could be attached this way. Thanks for including this.
But what I am not getting is why you would make a gas pipe a conductor (because most CSST faults are caused by lighting) to carry potentially
thousands of volts and subject it to objectable current in a normal short circuit situation.
 
I think the idea is that if it is bonded it will stay near zero potential. If it is floating then if the lightning elevates the csst, an arc might jump from the csst to a nearby grounded object and blow a hole in it. So it is there to prevent an arc.
 
augie47 said:
About 90% of the connections I see are accomplished by a split bolt connection to the grounding electrode conductor to the ground rod.
Click to expand...
I except is is very common to be missing. When I inspected the duplex my daughter bought a few years ago, originally built around 2010, I saw they did not bond the yellow CSST in the crawl space. The water pipe GEC ran within a foot of a major set of CSST connections, so a split bolt was very convenient to bond it. I just put the clamp one of the CSST to iron connectors. Did the same in the the duplex neighbor's duplex.
 
tthh said:
I except is is very common to be missing. When I inspected the duplex my daughter bought a few years ago, originally built around 2010, I saw they did not bond the yellow CSST in the crawl space. The water pipe GEC ran within a foot of a major set of CSST connections, so a split bolt was very convenient to bond it. I just put the clamp one of the CSST to iron connectors. Did the same in the the duplex neighbor's duplex.
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It wasn't until years after CSST was introduced that the problem with pin holing was discovered. It was after that still that ground bonding was required. So, you can expect all early installations to be non-compliant.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
It wasn't until years after CSST was introduced that the problem with pin holing was discovered. It was after that still that ground bonding was required. So, you can expect all early installations to be non-compliant.

-Hal
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Correct. I think when the problem was discovered, mainly in the southeast, the manufacturer required the bonding in their installation instructions.
They tried to get the NEC to require bonding and when that failed, they got the IFGC to require bonding.

Ron
 
rc/retired said:
Correct. I think when the problem was discovered, mainly in the southeast, the manufacturer required the bonding in their installation instructions.
They tried to get the NEC to require bonding and when that failed, they got the IFGC to require bonding.

Ron
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rc/retired said:
Correct. I think when the problem was discovered, mainly in the southeast, the manufacturer required the bonding in their installation instructions.
They tried to get the NEC to require bonding and when that failed, they got the IFGC to require bonding.

Ron
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I understand they had a product that had a problem and they found a solution by bonding the gas pipe. So now you have a #6 to the water piping , a #6 going to the ground rod and a #6 going to the gas pipe. All tied together. A parallel circuit, making the Metal underground gas piping system a grounding electrode, not permitted by 250.52(B)(1). Is it just me but putting possiblely thousands of volts from a lighting strike on a gas pipe and also carry the objectionable current in a short circuit conditions a good idea. The NEC never thought making metal underground gas piping systems to be used as grounding electrode was a good idea. It looks like every time you bond a gas pipe with a #6 and make it a grounding electrode you violate the NEC 250.52(B)(1).
 
Rjryan said:
I understand they had a product that had a problem and they found a solution by bonding the gas pipe. So now you have a #6 to the water piping , a #6 going to the ground rod and a #6 going to the gas pipe. All tied together. A parallel circuit, making the Metal underground gas piping system a grounding electrode, not permitted by 250.52(B)(1). Is it just me but putting possiblely thousands of volts from a lighting strike on a gas pipe and also carry the objectionable current in a short circuit conditions a good idea. The NEC never thought making metal underground gas piping systems to be used as grounding electrode was a good idea. It looks like every time you bond a gas pipe with a #6 and make it a grounding electrode you violate the NEC 250.52(B)(1).
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Did they ever determine the cause of the gas leak that destroyed NFL player's father's home to explode? It was a newer home so if there was CSST in the home it was probably black.
Since the introduction of the black CSST did the black CSST solve the industry problem? If so, maybe we should be recommending black CSST replacement.

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augie47 said:
You can find out more than you want to know about bonding CSST here:


www.iccsafe.org

CodeNotes: Bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing gas piping systems - ICC

Lee Clifton, senior director of PMG Resources for the International Code Council, discusses the bonding of CSST gas piping systems in this latest CodeNotes.
www.iccsafe.org www.iccsafe.org
augie47 said:
You can find out more than you want to know about bonding CSST here:


www.iccsafe.org

CodeNotes: Bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing gas piping systems - ICC

Lee Clifton, senior director of PMG Resources for the International Code Council, discusses the bonding of CSST gas piping systems in this latest CodeNotes.
www.iccsafe.org www.iccsafe.org
Click to expand...
Lee thank you for providing this very useful article.Was surprise to read that the black jacket CSST provides such a great Bonding source.
Click to expand...
 
Because of Title 24, the whole country is in the process of being transformed into ductless systems. Gas eventually will be in the trans can of history.
 
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