Gas Pipe Bonding, Particularly CSST

[rc/retired]

I’ve been in a lot of homes around here with gas furnaces, and I’ve never seen the gas line connected to the furnace with flex. They’re always hard-piped. If I ever did see one, I’d assume it was done by a handyman rather than an HVAC professional.

The opposite in my area. The HVAC techs use far more appliance connectors than hard pipe.
The connectors have rules, though. One time use only and cannot be concealed.

Ron

 

[hbiss]

I’ve been in a lot of homes around here with gas furnaces, and I’ve never seen the gas line connected to the furnace with flex. They’re always hard-piped. If I ever did see one, I’d assume it was done by a handyman rather than an HVAC professional.

Same here. Furnaces and water heaters hard piped. Not sure if it's a code. Dryers, ranges are connected with a whip. Makes it easier to move them.

-Hal

 

[tortuga]

Interesting how things are different in different areas. Around here the black pipe exits the furnace and a short flex about 1-2 feet bridges to the rest of the black pipe & upside down T & shutoff. Perhaps its just a short chunk of that CSST stuff.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Same here. Furnaces and water heaters hard piped. Not sure if it's a code. Dryers, ranges are connected with a whip. Makes it easier to move them.

-Hal

In my understanding, it is code either way. It is "allowed" to be hard piped if it never moves, such as a water heater. If it moves, then it obviously needs a whip.

 

[kwired]

I was just in the plumbing section at Menards last week. They have various lengths of yellow CSST available…

That is where I have seen it and yes long lengths not just short appliance whips.

 

[kwired]

I wonder sometimes how natural gas is going to fare in the coming electric world. Does it get cheaper because less people aren't using it? Does it get more expensive because the transmission costs rise becuase less people are using it?

Until they stop generating electricity with natural gas there will be at least some transmission lines in use.

Will likely kind of go the way some the telephone operators around here have gone though. The local system will go to hell because they won't want to put any $$ into keeping it up until something is absolutely necessary. The dangers of leaking gas maybe adds a little different twist to it but will still be a degrading system for the most part.

 

[kwired]

I’ve been in a lot of homes around here with gas furnaces, and I’ve never seen the gas line connected to the furnace with flex. They’re always hard-piped. If I ever did see one, I’d assume it was done by a handyman rather than an HVAC professional.

I seen plenty where they put a few common sized nipples together to get from gas valve to the outside of the appliance and even make their sediment trap and place a shut off valve on the rigid nipple but leave the valve with CSST.

Then there are others that run rigid piping all the way to wall, ceiling and transition there - the CSST ends up being concealed and doesn't look so hacky.

 

[mtnelect]

I seen plenty where they put a few common sized nipples together to get from gas valve to the outside of the appliance and even make their sediment trap and place a shut off valve on the rigid nipple but leave the valve with CSST.

Then there are others that run rigid piping all the way to wall, ceiling and transition there - the CSST ends up being concealed and doesn't look so hacky.

The manufacture requires a rigid pipe connection from the main gas valve to the outside of the gas furnace, it's then connected to the "Drip Leg" which prevents debris from damaging the main gas valve. Now I see more of the flexible gas lines being connected directly to the main gas valve.

The reason the manufactures require a rigid connection is because a flexible gas line is not strong enough to withstand a "Fame Rollout" incident.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

When you attach a bonding wire to the grounding buss of an electrical panel, it is electrical. A plumber is not licensed to be in an electrical panel
and is in no way is qualified to make the proper connection. What happens if the plumber were to hook it the neutral buss?

I was thinking in 2017 they added some language so they did not need to access a panel for the connection.

I will look up. Thought the change had to do with IBT.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Found it.
I read it as if one was installed than by all means plumber run the wire just like the cable guy etc.
We don't run there tracer wire do we

Let's see how they follow there own instructions.

 

[Sparky4074]

250.104 (B) I believe holds the answer

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Interesting how things are different in different areas. Around here the black pipe exits the furnace and a short flex about 1-2 feet bridges to the rest of the black pipe & upside down T & shutoff. Perhaps its just a short chunk of that CSST stuff.

Appliance connectors and CSST are much different from each other, even though they look similar. The product standard for the appliance connectors require a wall thickness about 3 times what is required for CSST.

 

[david]

I agree that sounds like electricians work but unless it's a requirement of the local jurisdiction that it be installed by an electrician anyone can install it. The plumber or whoever else installs CSST does not need to go into the panel. The bonding jumper to the CSST can be tapped to any GEC on the outside of the panel. The plumber can always hire an electrician to make the connection is he is unqualified or unwilling to do so but it is not a requirement of the NEC.

The electrical inspectors certification exam includes questions about csst bonding for the international resdintial electrical inspector.

You can say it's not the electricians responsibility, but it is the electrical inspectors.
And the building is not getting an electrical final without the bonding

 

[david]

The resdintial electrical inspectors certification is based on the IRC not the NEC.

The commercial electrical inspectors certification is based on the NEC

The NEC is adopted in all 50 states.

The IRC is adopted in almost all the states

Edit: Google search 49 states

 

[kwired]

Appliance connectors and CSST are much different from each other, even though they look similar. The product standard for the appliance connectors require a wall thickness about 3 times what is required for CSST.

Makes sense, yet you would think that means the CSST would require more physical protection than I often see.

 

[kwired]

The resdintial electrical inspectors certification is based on the IRC not the NEC.

The commercial electrical inspectors certification is based on the NEC

The NEC is adopted in all 50 states.

The IRC is adopted in almost all the states

Edit: Google search 49 states

Adoption and enforcement are two different things.

IRC is pretty much unheard of around my area.

EI's are inspecting to NEC in all occupancy types.

 

[david]

Adoption and enforcement are two different things.

IRC is pretty much unheard of around my area.

EI's are inspecting to NEC in all occupancy types.

That's true, just curious who installs the interconnect smokes in your state the building contractor or the electrician? Who inspects them at rough and finals

Here the electrical inspector does the rough and the building inspector does the final sign off on smokes

Here the electrical inspector does the wiring inspection on the bond and the plumbing, mechanical inspector does the final on the csst for the gas

 

[kwired]

That's true, just curious who installs the interconnect smokes in your state the building contractor or the electrician? Who inspects them at rough and finals

Here the electrical inspector does the rough and the building inspector does the final sign off on smokes

Here the electrical inspector does the wiring inspection on the bond and the plumbing, mechanical inspector does the final on the csst for the gas

outside of cities that have their own inspectors the state electrical inspectors only enforce NEC. They could care less if you have smoke alarms or not. If they are present they will enforce anything NEC related though.

In cities that have their own electrical inspectors the EI often does enforce more than just NEC, smoke alarm placement often is one of those things added beyond NEC. I've done very little work in such jurisdictions so don't have much detail. Never done a brand new home in such jurisdictions. Usually just some smaller projects here or there and an occasional service replacement for people I know that were originally from near where I live.