Gastite bonding

[chris kennedy]

If this was your house would you want a fault current of 22k or a lightning strike directed to your gas service? I've been gray on this for years. Always been a AHJ call.

 

[mpd]

chris, it is really not an AHJ call, look at 250.104 (B),

 

[chris kennedy]

Thanks MPD, I'm familiar with Art. 250. I have had AHJ (electrical) ask me to remove GEC to gas twice in last 3 years. Two different counties. I'm telling I don't know what to think about this.

 

[raptor22us]

I am new to the forum, but I have been involved with this gastite issue for a while dealing with Vectren Gas Company. I have yet to find any one person there that can tell me what they want. I have had situations where the gas meter is on one side of the home and the electrical service is on the other side. THE NEC tells me to run a #4 bonding wire across the 70 feet of the house to the attachment for the gastite to the meter. That makes little sense to me as I have now possibly created a problem if there is a lightning strike and it decides to jump off in the house where it crosses another wire. By the way, if the gas company uses pvc to feed into the meter, and the gastite is already grounded through the appliance, how would a bonding wire sized for the service help? If I remember right, grounding in two places sets up a current flow. Thoughts?

 

[mvannevel]

THE NEC tells me to run a #4 bonding wire across the 70 feet of the house to the attachment for the gastite to the meter.

Gastite's tech bulletin might suggest you do that, but the NEC doesn't. In fact, what Gastite suggests is that the bonding point be as close to the servcie panel as possible, and close to the gas meter as also desireable.

As I see it, the bonding of the CSST only becomes a Code issue in terms of following the labeling and manufacturers instructions. It's not a 250.104(B) issue as long as it's bonded by an egc to an appliance. But to comply with 110.3(B), you need to bond the way Gastite requires.

 

[1793]

I'm glad to see....

I'm glad to see....

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one confused here. I received this bulletin from a potential customer and she wants to know I can do this.

I'm not sure exactly what the Bulletin is telling me to do.

Do I bond where the first metal fitting enters the house and with what size bonding conductor (200amp service so a #4 CU is needed)

Will a bond at any point work?
http://www.wardflex.com/press.htm Bulletin #16

 

[1793]

I talked with one of our Inspectors, electrical, and his position was nothing needed to be done. He did suggest going to the water main and make a bond from there if the customer really wanted something done. I don't see anything wrong or unsafe with this.

I'm still at a quandary as to how to determine the conductor size.

 

[jwelectric]

Every one of the flex gas pipe manufactures require that if any flex is installed the gas piping system is to be bonded based on the service (Table 250.66).

If the complete system is flex including that coming from underground then the bonding conductor must land on a fitting.

This bonding must be as close to the service panel as possible.

 

[mvannevel]

I'm still at a quandary as to how to determine the conductor size.

The tech bulletin I have is from Gastite and what they now say they require for this bond is this: The wire gauge for this bond must be sized, at a minimum, for the full amperage available through the service.

This is now, supposedly, a part of the manufacturers instructions provided with the CSST. And, as such, I guess it should be enforced under 110.3(B). But danged if I know who's responsible for this bonding.

You can't bond on the flex itself. The bonding connection must be on a fitting or a rigid pipe attached to the flex.

 

[iwire]

As I see it, the bonding of the CSST only becomes a Code issue in terms of following the labeling and manufacturers instructions.

I don't think the NEC applies whatsoever to this product.

90.2 Scope

(A)Covered. This Code covers the installation of electrical conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways for the following:

The NEC does not apply to the installation of gas piping.

 

[LarryFine]

I guess the gas guys have to hire an electrician, and, hey, there just happens to be one on the job. :grin:

 

[yanici]

I sent an e-mail to the MA electrical board inquiring about the Gastite bonding situation. The response from Richard Fredette at the board was that we are to "comply with NEC 250.104(B)."

 

[cpal]

I sent an e-mail to the MA electrical board inquiring about the Gastite bonding situation. The response from Richard Fredette at the board was that we are to "comply with NEC 250.104(B)."

250.104 (B) is not cut and dry when considering the CSST manufactures requirments. 250.104 (B) has language that allows the EGC of the circuit which may energize the pipe to ast as the required bond.

(in part the sizing of the jumper) The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 using the rating of the circuit that may energize the piping system(s).



(also) The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.


The NEC's minimum standards do not appear to satisfy the literature from the manufactures that is, are calling for this system to be bonded (per 250.66??). The NEC does not prohibit complying with the manufactures listing or instructions, but that is on the shoulders of another authority. If a installation is bonded per the existing language I do not believe the electrical inspector can fail the electricians work. The plumbing installation would need to be failed by the plumbing inspector and then the plumbing contractor should get the electrician to comply with the requirements from the manufacture.

Of Course all of this ought to be worked out before it gets that far. .

 

[1793]

250.104 (B) is not cut and dry when considering the CSST manufactures requirments. 250.104 (B) has language that allows the EGC of the circuit which may energize the pipe to ast as the required bond.

(in part the sizing of the jumper) The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 using the rating of the circuit that may energize the piping system(s).



(also) The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

So, if I have two or three different electrical components that could energize a gas pipe, cook-top, range and fire place, I need to bond at each?

 

[cpal]

So, if I have two or three different electrical components that could energize a gas pipe, cook-top, range and fire place, I need to bond at each?

I knew this was going to open a can of worms.

I think the normal cord whip (or BC connection) when plugged into (or connected to) a receptacle with an EGC connection will satisfy 250.104 (B)

 

[1793]

I knew this was going to open a can of worms.

I think the normal cord whip (or BC connection) when plugged into (or connected to) a receptacle with an EGC connection will satisfy 250.104 (B)

Nothing like going fishing during the week. :grin:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, does anyone see a problem bonding from the water main to the first CSST fitting?

From my conversation with the Inspector, lightning strikes are blowing the thin walls of this stuff.

I would think if I went from the panel then this could act like part of the grounding system. Yes / No

 

[cpal]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, does anyone see a problem bonding from the water main to the first CSST fitting?

I do not have a problem with it but now you must bond in the method the manufacture displays in the literature.

From my conversation with the Inspector, lightning strikes are blowing the thin walls of this stuff.

I believe this is true and has caused the class action suit.

I would think if I went from the panel then this could act like part of the grounding system. Yes / No

As long as it is not underground. although from the text of the NEC if the equipment is plugged in or wired and the system provides an EGC the minimum requirements are covered.

 

[1793]

Charlie,

Thank you for having this conversation with me. I think I'll let my customer know that according to the NEC, nothing else needs to be done.

Again, thank you.

 

[electricmanscott]

From my conversation with the Inspector, lightning strikes are blowing the thin walls of this stuff.

Is bonding with a "full size" conductor actually going to stop this?

 

[1793]

Is bonding with a "full size" conductor actually going to stop this?

In my opinion, NO. I think the inspectors point was nothing needs to be done at all. The requirement for the full sized bonding jumper was from the Technical Bulletin from WardFlex.