GE af breaker

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

williamphelps

Member
Location
eureka ca.
Have a 10 year old house and it needs to be brought up to code. It has over 10 multi-wire branch circuits. "common neutral" I am thinking about replacing the main and sub panels with GE so I can install their mod3 AF breakers. I am thinking it will save time as the MOD3 doesn't require separating all the neutrals. Does anyone have any experience with this?
 
Welcome to the forum. Not sure what you mean by not separating the neutral.

Ge uses 2 sp afci breakers and you add a breaker tie. You must connect the 2 hots and the accompanying neutral. The neutral from the load goes to only one afci breaker.

Here is a pic of it.


430569d1506702489t-ge-afci-shared-neutral-wiring-installations-screen-shot-2017-09-29-9.16.26-am.jpg
 
There is no requirement to bring your only 10 year house up to code. Further, you are only fooling yourself if you believe AFCI breakers will protect you in any way. Don't waste your money!

-Hal
 
Yes, welcome to the Forum.

Note that the neutral doesn't have to be run through the AFCI. GE's solution to the "Grand Concept" of AFCI is, hands down, the most versatile of all of them, in my opinion. Given a choice, I would never approach a panel replacement with existing multiwire branch circuits with any other brand.

You can combine a 15 A and a 20 A single pole, and either can be a non-AFCI (standard breaker).

Note the handle tie.
 
al hildenbrand said:
Yes, welcome to the Forum.

Note that the neutral doesn't have to be run through the AFCI.
Click to expand...


What do you mean by this? The neutral of the multiwire branch circuit must get connected to one of the afci breakers and both neutrals from the breaker itself must be connected to the neutral bar
 
Dennis Alwon said:
What do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

What I mean is on Page 3 in this PDF document. This is a more recent publication than the original that you reference.

GE shows, both wiring a load neutral through one AFCI, and not another, AND not bringing the load neutral to either AFCI breaker is correct per GE diagrams.
 
Wow, I didn't realize you could do that, however if you don;t move the loads to the breaker then you could need an extra neutral bar to get all the wires connected.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
if you don;t move the loads to the breaker then you could need an extra neutral bar to get all the wires connected.
Click to expand...

In the full sized 30 and 40 pole panels I've been working with, there is a full neutral down both sides of the bus assembly. Adding an EGC bar, or bars, is all that would be necessary.
 
al hildenbrand said:
What I mean is on Page 3 in this PDF document. This is a more recent publication than the original that you reference.

GE shows, both wiring a load neutral through one AFCI, and not another, AND not bringing the load neutral to either AFCI breaker is correct per GE diagrams.
Click to expand...

That is what can be done when the breaker has no GF detection functionality. Makes it possible to comply with Code even with bad wiring and actual ground faults. The only part of earlier AFCI breakers that clearly detected hazardous faults in connected equipment was the GF component. The world is not fair....
 
GE’s Patented Discrete Wavelet Transform Algorithm allows for accurate response to abnormalities in electric waveform caused by arcing conditions. This eliminates the need to wire back from the dedicated branch circuit to the load neutral on the circuit breaker.
Click to expand...

Sure, whatever you say. :roll:

-Hal
 
GoldDigger said:
That is what can be done when the breaker has no GF detection functionality. Makes it possible to comply with Code even with bad wiring and actual ground faults. The only part of earlier AFCI breakers that clearly detected hazardous faults in connected equipment was the GF component. The world is not fair....
Click to expand...

nor transparent ,or clear....

1-and-2-pole-solution.jpg


https://www.geindustrial.com/AFCIadvantage


GoldDigger said:
Whatever else you may say, their AF function clearly is improved enough to pass the UL test case(s) that other AFCI breakers could only pass by using GF.
Click to expand...

It's recently gained acceptance internationally too.....via IEC

New requirements to harmonize the differences between TIL M-02A and CSA-C22.2 No. 270-16 are effective as of May 23, 2019. We offer preliminary investigation services, as well as traditional evaluation and certification services, to help you evaluate and test in preparation for the release of these modified requirements.
Click to expand...

https://www.ul.com/offerings/afci-protection-device-testing-and-certification

~RJ~
 
The load neutral terminal on the breaker is maybe nothing more than a place to park your branch circuit neutral conductor if you want to? IOW the input neutral simply goes to a bus within and there is no direct monitoring of current on your branch neutral conductor?
 
WilliamPhelps, again, Welcome to the Forum.

I want to take a moment away from the way this thread of posts is turning, to say that, in my opinion, you've asked a great question. It always amazes me the number of people still that are just learning about the GE MOD3 AFCI even though the product was introduced (pure AFCI without a ground fault sensing component) almost a decade ago.

Since you are under the 2014 NEC (per your profile) there are a lot of ways AFCI protection is required. 'Nuf said.

williamphelps said:
Have a 10 year old house and it needs to be brought up to code. It has over 10 multi-wire branch circuits. "common neutral" I am thinking about replacing the main and sub panels with GE so I can install their mod3 AF breakers. I am thinking it will save time as the MOD3 doesn't require separating all the neutrals. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Click to expand...

Your question, however, lands in a sweet spot of dissatisfaction among some of the members of this Forum. Some, here, have strong opinions about what any AFCI does, or doesn't do. From the beginning of commercially available AFCI breakers, the manufacturers of them have refused to release any knowledge or hardware that would make field testing of an AFCI protected branch circuit possible.

Yet, the NEC, and local Authority Having Jurisdiction, require the AFCI be installed, which trumps the opinion of the electrician about the efficacy of the "Grand Concept, as manufactured," of AFCI protection.

So, now, returning to the most recent posts in this thread, . . . welcome to where the smudge pots smolder . . .
 
al hildenbrand said:
Since you are under the 2014 NEC (per your profile) there are a lot of ways AFCI protection is required. 'Nuf said.
Click to expand...

Yes, for new construction and some changes or additions to the original wiring. But there is no requirement to bring any existing system up to current code. Never was. If you had K&T wiring, old BX or old NM without a ground it would definitely be a good idea to consider replacement and that would (unfortunately) trigger the AFCI requirement. But to go through the trouble and expense to change panels in a fairly new house just to install AFCI breakers, something you don't have to do- I really think you are misinformed as to their credibility.

The manufacturers got them written into code so they can sell product. They have never been proven to have saved one life.

Ahh, but that's just my opinion after all. I guess hundreds of pages by other members of this board with evidence and data concluding the same thing is opinion also.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
The manufacturers got them written into code so they can sell product. They have never been proven to have saved one life.

Ahh, but that's just my opinion after all. I guess hundreds of pages by other members of this board with evidence and data concluding the same thing is opinion also.

-Hal
Click to expand...

Yup. All that opinion, the NEC, $1.00, and my local AHJ inspector will give me a cup of coffee while the inspection of the AFCIs required occurs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top