Gearing up for (inspection) battle

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electricmanscott

electricmanscott

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Location
Boston, MA
Occupation
Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Wiring a new house in a town I don't work in often. Another EC was telling me about some of the things the inspector likes to see. Two ground rods driven horizontaly through the foundation 6" to 18" off the basement floor. No receptacles within five feet of hydromassage tub.(Allowed if gfci protected). No Gfci receptacle under hydromassage tub (Good idea but not enforcable). Gfci protection for recessed lights over tub or shower.(Not NEC required). I'm drawing a blank on the others but none were backed up by any code reference that I could find other than "He likes it that way". This should be interesting. :roll:
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

When you wrestle with a pig in mud you'll eventually realize that the pig likes it, do it his way and save yourself the headache.
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Ken987, that's helarious.

Scott, It sounds like either you're gonna fail or he has it out for the guy who told you this.

I'm sure you can handle him. ;)
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

beat him in the head all you want if he's that stubborn, it won't do any good
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

You'll have to beat his boss. And what if he likes it? :eek:
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

So when you guys go to battle with an inspector, do you ever think of "Maybe I should just do it his way or the next jobs will be hell?" I mean...can inspector's do that...if you prove them wrong they just like pick your next job apart?
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

LOL so like what kind of stuff would make you question and chalenge an inspector?
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

By Scott: No receptacles within five feet of hydromassage tub.(Allowed if gfci protected)
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This guy would allow a unprotected receptacle in a bathroom? If it is in a bathroom it has to be GFCI protected? It wouldn't matter if it was ten feet from the hydromassage tub. Unless your calling a Hot tub a hydromassage tub? and it is not in a bathroom?
The rest your right.
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Two ground rods driven horizontally through the foundation 6" to 18" off the basement floor.
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If you penetrate the cinder block won't this be a potential spot for a leak ?
No Gfci receptacle under hydromassage tub (Good idea but not enforceable).
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I used to do this (way back when) but an inspector pointed out that if the GFI tripped it would be a real hassle to open up the access panel (especially since you were in the tub and soaking wet) and press the reset. Also, it would probably NEVER be tested. So, I've since located a faceless GFI somewhere else within the bathroom area with a std. receptacle under the tub platform.
Gfci protection for recessed lights over tub or shower.(Not NEC required).
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We just had this discussion in a recent thread.

Scott,
Sounds like you're headed for a confrontation with an overzealous inspector, but don't be intimidated by the possibility of a fight. Appeasing the inspector isn't always the best way out. If it came down to a question of a few bucks and half hour's worth of work I would take that option rather than the hassle. On the other hand if it came down to a few hours and a whole lot of $$$ and you truly believe you are in the right, I would dig in for the fight. Do the job as you always do - the best way you know how to - and let the inspector cite the code sections he believes you are in violation of.

Do you have an agency or some type of remedy to back you up if it comes down to that ? Here in NJ we have a code compliance section within the Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors (part of the DCA). All inspectors in the state fall under the auspices of this agency. There are state level inspectors within this agency that will come out to the job site, if necessary, to determine who is correct.
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

I keep re-reading that two ground rods bit, and the only way I can picture accomplishing that is before the pour. Am I mistaken? Seems like a UF'er is what the inspector wants, but has never heard of one? Scratch that, fifth time's the charm, I get what he's saying. I guess the retarded ones take longer! :D I would imagine that would be leak city too...?

Midget, anytime we fail a house or hear rumor about a questionable requirement, there is a strong impulse to fight it. If you want to see a discussion about when to fight and the difficulty of deciding, just look at the "Shower Can GFI Protected?" thread. We talked about giving in versus digging in, and it'll illuminate Scott's special dilemma here. :D And there's a good twist in the end too! :D
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Two ground rods horizontally? Must have all ledge there! Plus all 8' of a 8' rod must be in contact with the soil. To do it his way, you would need a longer rod.

250.52G
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Horizontal ground rods are only permitted when rock bottom prevents you from driving it 8' deep. See 250.53(G).
Don
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Wayne I was just pointing out that the receptacels are allowed if gfci protected. He will allow none period. As for the ground rods "He likes" the foundation drilled and the rods installed as I said. Certainly asking for a leak as the house is practically in a wetland. I installed 160' of pvc out to the well yesterday. Today it floats on 4' of water. :roll: The good news is I am prabably as or more stubborn than he may be. (Maybe that's not good news :confused: ) I plan to install per code as always. I'll be particulary neat and mindfull of code issues. We'll see how it goes. Service inspectiion will be Monday or Tuesday, rough inspection probably Thursday.
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Plus all 8' of a 8' rod must be in contact with the soil. To do it his way, you would need a longer rod.
Click to expand...
They make 10' ground rods you know. Only cost a few bucks more :D
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Scott, everything but the bit about ground rods sounds like every day stuff to me. In some locals we are required to install a gfci breaker in the panel for the tub, similarily with the can over the shower, regardless of height. Usually, I don't fight with the insp. I just ask dumb questions, like what page was that requirement on? I couldn't find it last night. Let me get my code book and maybe we could find it together. Do we gotta be politicians now too?


Hank
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

Are the 10' ground rods listed and labeled for driving horizontally through a block wall in a basement. :roll: :mad:
 
Re: Gearing up for (inspection) battle

To: msd,
From: friebel,
You do not need to purchase a 10 foot ground rod to meet the NEC requirement, 250.53(G). You just need to drive the 8 foot ground into the ground so that all 8 foot is in the ground.
When I worked for the DuPont company, it was our practice to install a ceramic crock that was in size 3 foot deep and 2 foot in diameter. We would put the crock in the ground and then drive the ground rod down through the center of the crock.
The purpose of this was to allow us to go back and check our ground rod connections. Of course there was a cover on the crock to keep all debris from entering the crock.
 
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