GEC connection to Ufer

[mwm1752]

Does "extending from its location from within the concrete" include making the connection below grade? Provided that I use a connection that's approved for direct burial.

The rebar steel extending from the footer UFER cannot be surrounded by earth due to corrosion ( more of a building scenario with rebar steel) -- the burial part is based upon encased in concrete IMO

 

[infinity]

Now that I read it, it is clearer. :slaphead:
I thought a connection to the rebar was required if present.

Yes this section is confusing. If the qualifying rebar is present then you must use a CEE which can be either the rebar OR 20' of bare #4 or larger Cu.

 

[mwm1752]

Yes this section is confusing. If the qualifying rebar is present then you must use a CEE which can be either the rebar OR 20' of bare #4 or larger Cu.

What some argue though is that if the UFUR isn't installed to be used (stubbed out from footer) with the installation of new footers then it is not present -- IMO new footers with rebar steel qualify as rebar being present and shall be used. no excuses

 

[infinity]

What some argue though is that if the UFUR isn't installed to be used (stubbed out from footer) with the installation of new footers then it is not present -- IMO new footers with rebar steel qualify as rebar being present and shall be used. no excuses

No excuses sounds like your making up your own code. The NEC is pretty clear that you can use either the rebar or install the bare copper.

 

[GoldDigger]

No excuses sounds like your making up your own code. The NEC is pretty clear that you can use either the rebar or install the bare copper.

As I parse it, the NEC says:
1. If you have qualifying rebar or qualifying copper, you have a UFER, whether you connect to it or not.
2. If you have a UFER you must use it (connect to it as part of GES.)

Therefore, if you have both you can use the UFER by connecting to either one.
The argument that if there is qualifying rebar and qualifying copper you have two UFERs using the same chunk of concrete and therefore must use BOTH is makeable, but probably not defensible. Up to the AHJ, IMHO.

 

[infinity]

Therefore, if you have both you can use the UFER by connecting to either one.
The argument that if there is qualifying rebar and qualifying copper you have two UFERs using the same chunk of concrete and therefore must use BOTH is makeable, but probably not defensible. Up to the AHJ, IMHO.

I agree, if I don't like to use rebar and prefer copper as part of the CEE I can use copper whether there is qualifying rebar or not. Even if you have two "ufers" you only need to use one.

 

[mwm1752]

No excuses sounds like your making up your own code. The NEC is pretty clear that you can use either the rebar or install the bare copper.

I never said you couldn't use copper -- I stated that rebar in a new footer is considered being present -- how design your UFER is your personal business & most I am aware of use the footer steel -- clean your glasses - take your blinders off -- no I am not on the code making commitee.

 

[infinity]

I never said you couldn't use copper -- I stated that rebar in a new footer is considered being present -- how design your UFER is your personal business & most I am aware of use the footer steel -- clean your glasses - take your blinders off -- no I am not on the code making commitee.

I don't need glasses because I had that fancy eye surgery but here's what you said" IMO new footers with rebar steel qualify as rebar being present and shall be used. no excuses " sounds like a personal mandate to me because it's not supported by the NEC. If that's not what you meant then we agree.

 

[tkb]

The way I read it is that if the footing has rebar, then the footing will be a UFER.
The GEC doesn't have to connect to the rebar if there is 20' of bare #4 in the footing.

The bare #4 can be run along the rebar with cable ties for 20' without a clamp or connection to the rebar.

 

[inspectorescambia]

Be aware of building code!

Be aware of building code!

The rebar cannot turn out into the dirt! that will let it rust to dust, and the rust will be a cancer that proceeds into the footing.
In our area, for single family residences, our building inspectors and building contractors turn the end of a 20' rod up in the wall of the garage or utility room. On rough-in the grounding electrode conductor is attached to the rod in a dry location (inside the wall) and a plaster ring or 2 gang plastic box placed in front of it. Remains dry, protected, and accessible. All that is left is to drop out a 10" piece of CU for the intersystem bonding bridge.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

All that is left is to drop out a 10" piece of CU for the intersystem bonding bridge.

And technically that is not compliant as the bonding bridge is not listed to join bonding jumpers for the grounding electrode system.

 

[iwire]

The rebar cannot turn out into the dirt! that will let it rust to dust, and the rust will be a cancer that proceeds into the footing.
.

In many areas they allow this, but I agree with you, it should not be done.