ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
Does the code require the GEC to be connected to the neutral bar or can it be connected to the ground terminal bar if a main bonding jumper is installed between the 2 bars
gec connection
- Thread starter ibew501ed
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I would think it would depend on the bonding jumper size. I would reference art. 250.68 and 250. 64 and it does not say it must be connected to the neutral bar.
The way we read 250.24(A)(1) we require it to be connected to the neutral bar directly.
(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.
(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.
ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
I also read this section but if the panel has a bus tie between terminal bars would that change anything
SG-1
Senior Member
- Location
- Ware Shoals, South Carolina
Is this a service or a seperate building ?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
jwjrw
Senior Member
Thats how I view it.I actually was allowed to do this by the most by the book inspector we have here. Not saying its code but seems to meet the intent.
ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
its a service
jwjrw
Senior Member
If you take the wording of that you could only connect to the bar the grounded conductor is hooked to right? Thats how I read it.
I swear I saw in ec@m a drawing that showed a jumper and saying its legal because the connection wasnt dependent on the can.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
I have to agree with Gus here (I have to, because he agreed with me once recently, so I owe him one. :grin
Let's consider an absurd example. Suppose from the main service panel a feeder is run to a distribution board in the same room. Suppose that feeder has a "big enough" EGC. Can you connect the GEC to the ground bus in the distribution panel, since that bus is electrically connected to the ground bus in the main panel, which in turn is electrically connected to the neutral bus in the main panel, so it is essentially the same point, right?
It would not change the way electrons behave, as the two points are electrically connected. But it is not what the code words say to do.
Let's consider an absurd example. Suppose from the main service panel a feeder is run to a distribution board in the same room. Suppose that feeder has a "big enough" EGC. Can you connect the GEC to the ground bus in the distribution panel, since that bus is electrically connected to the ground bus in the main panel, which in turn is electrically connected to the neutral bus in the main panel, so it is essentially the same point, right?
ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
Was that a recent article? That may have been what I saw to spark this question
ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
I have to agree with Gus here (I have to, because he agreed with me once recently, so I owe him one. :grin
Let's consider an absurd example. Suppose from the main service panel a feeder is run to a distribution board in the same room. Suppose that feeder has a "big enough" EGC. Can you connect the GEC to the ground bus in the distribution panel, since that bus is electrically connected to the ground bus in the main panel, which in turn is electrically connected to the neutral bus in the main panel, so it is essentially the same point, right?
Would that wire between the neutral in the main and the dist panel be a MBJ?
I think your example is a bit of a stretch
IMHO I dont know
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
I was speaking of two wires: the MBJ between the N and G bars in the main panel, and an EGC from the G bar in the main panel to the G bar in the downstream panel. As I said, it was an example of absurdity.
ibew501ed
Senior Member
- Location
- danbury ct/work in white plains ny
understood but is that justification for "you must connect to the ungrounded terminal bar"?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
So the other way to look at it is--- a mb panel with 2 factory neutral bars- one on each side of the panel. The grounded conductor is connected to the bar on the left side (remember this is also factory connected to the bar on the right side). Now are you all saying I cannot connect the GEC to the right bar? I don't buy it.
as always a word game. 250.24(A) says the bus (singular).. at what point does the "bus" that the neutral connects to quit being "the bus". If the connection to the other bar is a wire then I'd think it was unacceptable. If its a factory strap/bar/whatever then it might be acceptable.
If one looks at the reasoning, as I understand it, the GEC wants to be connect to the neutral with as few of connections point as possible so as to carry the maximum current if called upon to do so,
For that reason, I would think we would want the connection as close as possible.
As with most things discussed here, Code compliance would be an AHJ call but it would, IMHO, certainly be good to encourage the connection to be as close as possible to the neutral connection to the bus. In most panels, it would be just as easy to connect there.
If one looks at the reasoning, as I understand it, the GEC wants to be connect to the neutral with as few of connections point as possible so as to carry the maximum current if called upon to do so,
For that reason, I would think we would want the connection as close as possible.
As with most things discussed here, Code compliance would be an AHJ call but it would, IMHO, certainly be good to encourage the connection to be as close as possible to the neutral connection to the bus. In most panels, it would be just as easy to connect there.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I don't either. If someone connected all of the circuit neutrals on the right side the factory jumper bar between the two would carry all of the neutral current. Seems like although the two are factory connected there essentially one neutral bar.
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