General Duty Safety Switch not permited?

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And just cuz I'm a sicko,.. I went and looked at those diconnect switches I mentioned above ,.. all were the pullout type ,.. and a dead front / listing makes perfect sense as you have to lift the lid to operate the switch ,.. where as in Bob's example you don't
 
And so when the home owner pulls their panel cover off to replace a breaker....
Lots of live parts, lots of possible problems. They shouldn't be playing around in there either, but they do. Panels could be against code...:)
 
So Bob - this was a 'class' - did you learn anything? As if this is an example of the class - I'm not to impressed by the siting of 110.27A... :roll: If so there should also be a lock on any enclosure with the keys kept by the AHJ to issue to qualified persons in the event access is required.
 
e57 said:
So Bob - this was a 'class' - did you learn anything? As if this is an example of the class - I'm not to impressed by the siting of 110.27A... :roll: If so there should also be a lock on any enclosure with the keys kept by the AHJ to issue to qualified persons in the event access is required.
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I know all the Ac disconnects never get a lock on them, well most of them, but reading 110.31(D) would seem to require it, and I'm surprised they didn't cite this code to back up their claim, but then again if a lock was installed it would be code compliant in both citations.
 
hurk27 said:
I know all the Ac disconnects never get a lock on them, well most of them, but reading 110.31(D) would seem to require it, and I'm surprised they didn't cite this code to back up their claim, but then again if a lock was installed it would be code compliant in both citations.
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14KV HAVC gear at a residence...
 
iwire said:
what I do not see is any code to back it up.
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I agree.

Now let me ask you this. Are you surprised to hear of a "phantom code" being taught in that class? :D

I'll give you another juicy one to chew on. Same class, same instructors. Quote "If you do not run a separate ground wire in EMT, then you are only permitted to use steel fittings because die-cast fittings are not listed for grounding." :roll:
 
e57 said:
14KV HAVC gear at a residence...
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Whoops didn't realize I strayed out of the 600 volts and below area of the online 2008 version:roll:

But even with a GP disco, all the ones I have seen have a locking door, and a padlock would make it compliant, and all of the simple pullout air disconnects we use either have a dead front or are designed so that there are no live parts accessible even if the door is opened. Midwest Electric, makes one that is UL listed without a dead front, because all the live parts are recessed and are not assessable, I have argued that because there are no live parts accessible, then it shouldn't require the working space as in 110.26, as there are no live parts likely to be worked on while energized, but that went no where.:roll:
 
hurk27 said:
...........I have argued that because there are no live parts accessible, then it shouldn't require the working space as in 110.26, as there are no live parts likely to be worked on while energized, but that went no where.:roll:
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No where ,.. a debate on this site going no where ,.. I don't believe it ,. not for one minuet.:)
 
Count me in for a big
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on the 110.27(A) citation. Seems as though I've installed more than a couple AC Disconnects without any guarding over the terminals to speak of, but I wouldn't swear to it.

If I could remember the brand, I'd have an easier time finding a picture.
 
I don't see how 110.27(A) even pertains to disconnect switches, that section is about live parts in electrical rooms, vaults and areas dedicated to electrical equipment. Even if you singled out a disco sw. on a wall as long as it had a cover/door it would be OK. Heavy duty or standard duty has nothing to do with it.
 
Assuming the wacky citation even pertains to disconnects, the difference between General Duty and Heavy Duty has nothing to do with cover interlocks. Cover interlocks are brand specific.

Siemens 3R general duty disconnects over 60A all have cover interlocks. Can I mount one of those outside my house according to your instructor?
 
As I stated, I took the same class with the same instructors, although at a different time. This doesn't surprise me a bit because as Bob can also attest, this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as misinformation and outright made up code rules go.

Is it any wonder why myths persist in the trade? :roll:
 
MarkyMarkNC said:
Assuming the wacky citation even pertains to disconnects, the difference between General Duty and Heavy Duty has nothing to do with cover interlocks. Cover interlocks are brand specific.

Siemens 3R general duty disconnects over 60A all have cover interlocks. Can I mount one of those outside my house according to your instructor?
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The way I read NEMA KS1, all disconnect switches have cover interlocks. The only difference is that a HD switch is allowed to have a screw that defeats the interlock.
 
steve66 said:
The way I read NEMA KS1, all disconnect switches have cover interlocks. The only difference is that a HD switch is allowed to have a screw that defeats the interlock.
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There must be more than one standard as many discconects have no interlock at all ........ or maybe that is a new standard?
 
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I looked at a 30 amp GE general duty switch this morning and it did not have a cover interlock. New on the shelf.
 
iwire said:
No, they specifically cited 110.27(A) and the fact a GD switch can be opened in the on position.
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If this was truly a violation of 110.27(A) then I do not believe GD switches would be manufactured and offered for sale. The market would be too limited.
 
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