GFCI Receptacle in Weatherproof Box

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jumper said:
My house is constructed outside, so my living room enviorment the same as my front yard.
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al hildenbrand said:
The NFPA Glossary of Terms 2016 defines "outdoor area" as an area that is not indoors.

IMO, a receptacle outlet in a junction box on a post outdoors is not "indoors". "Indoor area" has the definition: An area that is within a building or structure having overhead cover, other than a structure qualifying as "weather protection."

I don't see the screwed on cover of the junction box as a "door".
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Little Bill's weatherproof box is providing the weather protection, and it has no additional overhead cover. Your Living Room does have an additional cover.
 
al hildenbrand said:
Little Bill's weatherproof box is providing the weather protection, and it has no additional overhead cover. Your Living Room does have an additional cover.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP's situation, but I believe that the weatherproof box has a further box inside it that houses the receptacle. So the weatherproof box is providing overhead cover for the receptacle, just like jumper's roof provides overhead cover for interior receptacles.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP's situation, but I believe that the weatherproof box has a further box inside it that houses the receptacle. So the weatherproof box is providing overhead cover for the receptacle, just like jumper's roof provides overhead cover for interior receptacles.
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The "boxes" are Equipment.

The post is the Structure. The Structure has no additional cover.
 
al hildenbrand said:
The "boxes" are Equipment.

The post is the Structure. The Structure has no additional cover.
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Fine.

LittleBill,

Henceforth all ye exterior structures and equipment, despite being suitable for a wet location, shall forthwith be so attired, attached with, and be lawfully shaded and made comfortable with this properly listed, labeled, and fashionably colored cover thingy. Any substitutions must have prior approval from the governing AHJ.

IMG_0021.JPG
 
jumper said:
Henceforth all ye exterior structures and equipment, despite being suitable for a wet location, shall forthwith be so attired, attached with, and be lawfully shaded and made comfortable with this properly listed, labeled, and fashionably colored cover thingy. Any substitutions must have prior approval from the governing AHJ.
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[He] doth protest too much, methinks.
 
al hildenbrand said:
[He] doth protest too much, methinks.
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Nope, but I can say the dude has had too much coffee........

At this point the issue is irrelevant. It is Bill and his inspector that will decide what will pass there.

It is a pretty good bet everyone else on the forum is ignoring us at this point.

We are done as far as continuing to real value in discussing it further IMO.

Peace bro, ''twas a fun debate.
 
MAC702 said:
What currently prevents them from stringing an extension cord from indoors?
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To me, that's not the point. The motor plug is probably the disconnecting means, which can only be reached while standing outdoors. Loss of alarm when the GFCI trips is not an argument for removing personnel protection.
 
ActionDave said:
You and me Al. Everybody else has lost their minds.
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Hold on a minute, not everyone.

My biggest decision is where GFCI protection is located. A WRTR device at the top of the 100’ grain leg in the box where it is accessible for those working on the wireless repeaters or a CB in the 3R panel at the bottom, where it is accessible for those that don’t want to crawl the tower.

IDR where we put the only GFCI for the only installation anything close to the OPs.
 
ptonsparky said:
Hold on a minute, not everyone.

My biggest decision is where GFCI protection is located. A WRTR device at the top of the 100’ grain leg in the box where it is accessible for those working on the wireless repeaters or a CB in the 3R panel at the bottom, where it is accessible for those that don’t want to crawl the tower.

IDR where we put the only GFCI for the only installation anything close to the OPs.
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Kind of install I have been comparing this to, though that is more extreme when it comes to how readily accessible things are.

That box was put there to create a mini "dry room" for the equipment it contains. If some can't see it that way I guess you can glue some asphalt shingles to the top of it and attach some vinyl siding also.:huh: Had you not needed a dry space for other equipment you would have just put a receptacle in a weatherproof box.

And yes the GFCI atop the grain leg will always trip when conditions are not so desirable to climb the leg - like when it is covered in ice.
But put it inside that "little room" that is only a couple cubic feet or so and it isn't "outdoors" and doesn't require GFCI. If you want to be able to have receptacle on top of leg for maintenance use then put another one outside that "room" in a weather proof box with in use cover and a GFCI. Depending on what is inside the "little room" you might even want it on a separate circuit so you don't interrupt the service that little room is associated with. Wireless internet, and other communications are placed on some of these sites and may even be leased to second parties.
 
jumper said:
Nope, but I can say the dude has had too much coffee........

At this point the issue is irrelevant. It is Bill and his inspector that will decide what will pass there.

It is a pretty good bet everyone else on the forum is ignoring us at this point.

We are done as far as continuing to real value in discussing it further IMO.

Peace bro, ''twas a fun debate.
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Sorry but I don't drink coffee:p
 
kwired said:
That box was put there to create a mini "dry room" for the equipment it contains. If some can't see it that way I guess you can glue some asphalt shingles to the top of it and attach some vinyl siding also.:huh: Had you not needed a dry space for other equipment you would have just put a receptacle in a weatherproof box.
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You're under the 2017, by this point, no? The weatherproof box, necessary for the equipment it contains, is still part of the electrical assembly, and is not Article 100 "Structure". The large weatherproof box could be made like a meter pedestal that is plant-able directly in the ground with no addition support needed, AND, in this imaginary example, have no Structure.

To make a 'mini "dry room"' REQUIRES a definable indoor area of a Structure. By the definitions. Sure, you can have your installation like you are describing, if you ignore the definitions. Sure, a raceway mounted on the outside of a structure in the Mojave Desert is "dry", wink, wink, EXCEPT the location, being exposed to weather, is DEFINED as wet.
 
al hildenbrand said:
To make a 'mini "dry room"' REQUIRES a definable indoor area of a Structure.
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Reference? I don't agree.

I think that this all hinges on the definition of "outdoors", which isn't in the NEC. To me, inside a weatherproof enclosure isn't outdoors. Whether the weatherproof enclosure is big enough for me to fit in (a shed versus a small box) is immaterial.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Reference? I don't agree.

I think that this all hinges on the definition of "outdoors", which isn't in the NEC. To me, inside a weatherproof enclosure isn't outdoors. Whether the weatherproof enclosure is big enough for me to fit in (a shed versus a small box) is immaterial.

Cheers, Wayne
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This is not hard to figure out. If you have an indoor cat where do you keep it? Inside a tiny plastic box out in your yard?
 
So if I go get some general building construction materials and build a weather tight enclosure that is only 24 x 24 x 8 inside and put some communications or network equipment not intended for outdoor installation inside of it have I not created a dry location for such equipment?

Now instead of going through all the trouble to build such a thing why can't I just purchase an already completed NEMA 12 enclosure and use it for the same purpose? It likely even lasts longer then the other method. It may or may not entirely meet some NEC definitions but is being used for same purpose - which is a dry closure for general purposes - any wiring inside must be a wiring method and not just open conductors as it is not being used as an electrical enclosure.

I've seen "electrical enclosures" used to house pneumatic equipment as well, NEC does't apply at all to those unless there is electrically operated valves or something of that nature inside.
 
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