Gfi/afci tester

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jap

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Electrician
Does anyone know of an affordable GFI /AFCI Tester that could check a GFI or AFCI Breaker for Proper Operation?
It would be nice to hook a GFI or AFCI up to a Tester and see if it is good or not without going through the usual Process of elimination.
 
jap said:
Does anyone know of an affordable GFI /AFCI Tester that could check a GFI or AFCI Breaker for Proper Operation?
It would be nice to hook a GFI or AFCI up to a Tester and see if it is good or not without going through the usual Process of elimination.
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Sure. Its called the test button on the breaker.
As far as I know there is not a tester on the market for the afci except the test button on the breaker.
 
I'll ignore that first response. I'm talking about a neusance trip situation where you could Test the Breaker to see if the problem was in the breaker or the Branch wiring. Anyone can make them trip by pushing the test button.
 
jap said:
I'll ignore that first response. I'm talking about a neusance trip situation where you could Test the Breaker to see if the problem was in the breaker or the Branch wiring. Anyone can make them trip by pushing the test button.
Click to expand...

The only recognized test of the proper function of an AFCI breaker is the test button on the breaker itself.

Ideal does make a circuit analyzer that has some AFCI testing functions but again this is not a recognized test of the AFCI breaker.

Chris
 
There should be. Pushing the Button doesnt tell you anything other than you tripped it off. The problem usually is not getting it to trip off, its keeping it on.
 
Ceb wasn't being flip, or fatuous in his remark.

There are four manufacturer names on AFCIs at this point. GE's getting the guts of their breaker from Siemens (for the Combination) and Eaton (for the Branch Feeder). That means, there are three different manufacturer's technological solution to the "Grand Idea" of AFCI.

The Grand Idea is that good arcs can be discriminated from bad arcs, and the bad arcs can be de-energized before something bad happens.

There are three different solutions to that Grand Idea for each of the Branch Feeder and Combination AFCIs.

Until this distills into a "standard" (if ever), the only UL recognized way to test an AFCI is by pressing the breaker's own test button.

There are AFCI indicators that one can purchase, but, in my opinion, the current crop of AFCIs are untestable in the field in anything short of a field assembled laboratory experiment.
 
jap said:
There should be. Pushing the Button doesnt tell you anything other than you tripped it off. The problem usually is not getting it to trip off, its keeping it on.
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Well said.

The cul-de-sac that we are placed in requires ruling the wiring and the utilization equipment out as the cause.

There are some lengthy discussions about branch circuit testing procedures here on the Forum, all time consuming processes.
 
jap said:
I'll ignore that first response. I'm talking about a neusance trip situation where you could Test the Breaker to see if the problem was in the breaker or the Branch wiring. Anyone can make them trip by pushing the test button.
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That is exactly what you are doing. If when you push the test button and it trips, the breaker is functioning properly therefore assuming the problem probably was in the branch wiring.
 
That is exactly what you are doing. If when you push the test button and it trips, the breaker is functioning properly therefore assuming the problem probably was in the branch wiring.[/QUOTE]


What you said is exactly my point. ASSUMING.
How do you know for sure without being able to test it? You dont.
 
I think that jap is looking for a tester that can put a measured fault on the circuit breaker and know that the breaker is within factory specs. There are ground fault testers that allow you to dial up a ma leakage and find out what the gfi trips at. As far as afci testers that can do this I have not heard of any. Many times one afci breaker will not hold and another will. (On the same circuit.)
 
Thank You SEO, That is exactly what I am talking about.
I've been in the Electrical Field for a long time,but have to say,that without my meter to be able to Troubleshoot with,I'm no better than the next guy.
 
Ideal tester

Ideal tester

We are using an Ideal SureTest 61/165 tester for testing arc fault breakers. It simulates an arcing fault and works great. It has indicated when some AFCI breakers were not working properly, replaced the breaker and then they tested fine so it appears to be working. Has several different tests including line voltage, VD, ASCC, and GFCI
 
I take it that when you say you had tested some AFCI's that werent working properly, that when you simulated the Fault that they didn't Trip? And when you replaced the AFCI breaker they did?
 
There are a number of indicators on the market that will trip GFCI's and AFCI's, but that doesn't change the fact that the only recognized way of testing these units is the onboard test button.

I own a couple of Sure Test models as well as other devices down to the simple three light receptacle analyzer that will trip GFCI's and AFCI's, all this shows is that the device I'm using will trip the unit, it does not assure that the units are tripping due to an actual ground Fault or Arc Fault

If you want to test these units for proper operation without using the onboard test buttons you will need to create an actual event.

Roger
 
jap said:
I've been in the Electrical Field for a long time,but have to say,that without my meter to be able to Troubleshoot with,I'm no better than the next guy.
Click to expand...
I've been in the field for a long time as well. . .mostly in the shacks. Of all the things to understand, for testing purposes, there hasn't been anything like the AFCI in the past. It's a genuine Black Box with a date and manufacturer on it. So far, we, the people who maintain the energy habits of our customers, have been denied knowledge of what an AFCI is actually doing.

There are generalizations, sure, but not cold hard facts. A generalization is untestable.

The post Jan. 1, 2008, Combination AFCI is a signal processor, as much as anything, that manipulates the observed waveform by several different algorithms. Each manipulation result is judged to be a + or - error code, and the codes from each of the different algorithms are placed together in a summing register. When the value in the register exceeds a preset amount, the breaker arms, or trips. This is done in real time when the current passing through the AFCI breaker exceeds 5.0 Amps. The algorithms and the nature of the "judgements" are being kept secret, at this time, by the manufacturers.
 
Let me clarify.
I'm not looking for a tester to test that an AFCI or GFI will trip.
The Test button will do that.
I'm asking about a tester that verifies that the GFI or AFCI is staying Latched up to its Standards.So I can determine wether the problem is an over sensitive Breaker or the Branch circuit without guessing.
 
jap said:
Let me clarify.
I'm not looking for a tester to test that an AFCI or GFI will trip.
The Test button will do that.
I'm asking about a tester that verifies that the GFI or AFCI is staying Latched up to its Standards.So I can determine wether the problem is an over sensitive Breaker or the Branch circuit without guessing.
Click to expand...

The cheapest and easiest way to do this is to replace the breaker and see if the circuit still trips.
 
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