GFI Requirement?

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Andy Delle

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Los Angeles CA
10x13sqft residential addition used for show dog grooming (not a business). Los Angeles County. Drywalled including ceiling. Bare concrete floor but sealed. Are GFI outlets required?
 
Andy Delle said:
10x13sqft residential addition used for show dog grooming (not a business). Los Angeles County. Drywalled including ceiling. Bare concrete floor but sealed. Are GFI outlets required?
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You should just because of the concrete floor. Is it required by code? Probably

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Andy Delle said:
10x13sqft residential addition used for show dog grooming (not a business). Los Angeles County. Drywalled including ceiling. Bare concrete floor but sealed. Are GFI outlets required?
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Look at 210.8(A) and see if anything there is applicable- your description is a little too vague to be conclusive if GFCI would be req by the NEC.
 
Andy Delle said:
In looking again at the plan, I can run all the outlets in a loop. Then I just need a GFI outlet at the first box. Cheap solution!
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But GFCI may not be required, which is what you asked us in the op.

Did you find anything that warrants GFCI per the NEC?

And if you didn't and were going to do it anyway, why ask?
 
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Is it in an unfinished basement or other room covered under 210.8? Just because there is a concrete floor doesn't mean that GFCI protection is required. A concrete floor in a finished basement would not require GFCI protection.
 
Since this is a 10x13 addition, I doubt they are going to dig a hole under the existing house to put the addition in, making me doubt it will actually be considered a basement, which would make me doubt it would need GFI protection on the receptacle outlets.

JAP>
 
Andy Delle said:
I asked to see if it was a NEC requirement. Seems there are still questions so why not just install one at the loop start and be done with it. For $10 why argue?
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And you did not provide additional info, so we cannot answer anything---is it below ground/are there sink(s) etc.... just thinking something is a good idea is worlds apart from actually being required.;)

And you did get a code reference telling you exactly where to look in the NEC.... so what did you find? IOWs, did you conclude GFCI protection is required per the NEC?:)
 
Andy Delle said:
I asked to see if it was a NEC requirement. Seems there are still questions so why not just install one at the loop start and be done with it. For $10 why argue?
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Wait, didn't you start this thread and ask the question?
 
infinity said:
Wait, didn't you start this thread and ask the question?
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Yes I did. but after one post saying yes and another citing a code reference I re-thought and just decided to do it anyway. I don't have my code book here right now. I am an EE on large data center electrical systems and just happen to have a home remodel project in progress as well. I do not practice residential electrical and thought this would be an easy topic for those who do.

As for the basement, no this is Los Angeles, we don't have basements in residential. But a residential garage does require GFI outlets hence my initial question.

If this upsets everyone, then let's just delete the thread. No big deal.

P.S. Before this gets pounced on, yes i did pull an electrical permit as an owner/builder.
 
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Andy Delle said:
Yes I did. but after one post saying yes and another citing a code reference I re-thought and just decided to do it anyway. I don't have my code book here right now. I am an EE on large data center electrical systems and just happen to have a home remodel project in progress as well. I do not practice residential electrical and thought this would be an easy topic for those who do.

If this upsets everyone, then let's just delete the thread. No big deal.

P.S. Before this gets pounced on, yes i did pull an electrical permit as an owner/builder.
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No one is upset it's just that at first you seemed to want opinions and then said that you would just use GFCI protection anyway. No big deal, collectively we try to accurately answer the question not just for the original poster but for anyone else who may have the same question. Again no big deal, just that some of us were a little confused. :)
 
infinity said:
No one is upset it's just that at first you seemed to want opinions and then said that you would just use GFCI protection anyway. No big deal, collectively we try to accurately answer the question not just for the original poster but for anyone else who may have the same question. Again no big deal, just that some of us were a little confused. :)
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound defensive. But dare you ask any form of a DIY question over on HVAC talk and you get your butt chewed!
 
Andy Delle said:
Yes I did. but after one post saying yes and another citing a code reference I re-thought and just decided to do it anyway. I don't have my code book here right now. I am an EE on large data center electrical systems and just happen to have a home remodel project in progress as well. I do not practice residential electrical and thought this would be an easy topic for those who do.

As for the basement, no this is Los Angeles, we don't have basements in residential. But a residential garage does require GFI outlets hence my initial question.

If this upsets everyone, then let's just delete the thread. No big deal.

P.S. Before this gets pounced on, yes i did pull an electrical permit as an owner/builder.
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When you enter gray areas like that you should err on the side of caution. Being an engineer I'm sure you know that a human body's impedance to ground is less when standing on a slab on grade

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If they're going to wash dogs in there, then it's required. Also as small as the room is, some will likely be as close to as 6 ft of the sink.

On a side note. If their is more then one groomer. I would want two circuits for blow dryers
 
Buck Parrish said:
If they're going to wash dogs in there, then it's required. Also as small as the room is, some will likely be as close to as 6 ft of the sink.

On a side note. If their is more then one groomer. I would want two circuits for blow dryers
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Just as I was getting ready to type my answer, I saw yours.
 
Safety is the #1 concern. They will be cleaning the floors with water/hoses/pressure washer of some sort. Install a GFCI and be done with it.


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jason414 said:
Safety is the #1 concern. They will be cleaning the floors with water/hoses/pressure washer of some sort. Install a GFCI and be done with it.


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That's doubtful with Sheetrock walls and floors.

Jap>
 
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