Gould/ITE panel breaker ?

ritelec

Senior Member
Looking around the site I can't tell if Siemens breakers are approved for GOULD panel boards ?

I have a 40 circ 3 phase 4w panel.

It's fed with 1/0's. (Guessing it's 225 a and it's fed 150a)

Over the years people have added tandem murray and Siemens and other manufacturers.

Some breakers (12) are used for store night lighting and are switched on and off at the breaker

Some of these breaker buss points are a bit burnt. I'm guessing because of the breaker rating but mainly because if the breakers being used as switches and the movement of the breaker and loosening the connection point.


I'd like to install a 100 amp 3 pole breaker in this panel and feed a new panel for these twelve lighting loads and a couple of other new loads.
Do you think there is any problem installing a 100 amp breaker on this panel board busses and would you think that the Siemens breaker in this panel would be ok ??

Thank you
 

peter d

Senior Member
Siemens is the UL listed replacement for ITE. In fact, Siemens purchased ITE back in the day.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Ok thank you.

So I'm feeling a bit better about the jaw to buss connection on a new breaker.

About the rating of a buss bar on such a panel. Any thoughts about the max branch circuit breaker that can be placed on a 200 amp panel board ????

It's currently holding 20's and 30's

Think there's any issue install a 60 or even 100??

Total load in panel while cooking a business was running was about 40 so I'm not too concerned about the additional loads BUT am curious what the bars that accept the jaws are rated for.

Even let's say in a new 225 amp seimans ?? What would the Max oc breaker installed be ??

Thank you
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
100A is kinda the universal rule of thumb but you have to look at the paperwork inside the panel to be sure.

The only problem I see with using a 100A breaker is stuffing the wire in the panel. I like easy when it's a choice so I'd opt for a 60 or 70A breaker.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Ok thank you.

So I'm feeling a bit better about the jaw to buss connection on a new breaker.

About the rating of a buss bar on such a panel. Any thoughts about the max branch circuit breaker that can be placed on a 200 amp panel board ????

It's currently holding 20's and 30's

Think there's any issue install a 60 or even 100??

Total load in panel while cooking a business was running was about 40 so I'm not too concerned about the additional loads BUT am curious what the bars that accept the jaws are rated for.

Even let's say in a new 225 amp seimans ?? What would the Max oc breaker installed be ??

Thank you
Very likely was rated for up to 125 amps, as mentioned look at any label in the panel, but 200 amp panels likely will take up to 125 amp breaker on one pole. You may be able to get higher rated breakers but they probably take more then one space per pole.
 

Jraef

Moderator
Staff member
If this is a plug-in load center, they only made two sizes, 100A and 225A bus bars. So if you cannot read the part number, 100A would be the safe bet. If it had a 150A main, that might IMPLY that it was a 225A bus, but that relies on the judgement of someone before you who may of may not have known what they were doing.

In the old ITE numbering, there was a letter for the type of panel, followed by two 2 digit numbers for the # of 1" slots and the max number of poles, followed by a letter code for the type of main, followed by a 1 or 3 for the phases, then a 3 digit number that is either 100 or 225, denoting the bus rating.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
If this is a plug-in load center, they only made two sizes, 100A and 225A bus bars. So if you cannot read the part number, 100A would be the safe bet. If it had a 150A main, that might IMPLY that it was a 225A bus, but that relies on the judgement of someone before you who may of may not have known what they were doing.

In the old ITE numbering, there was a letter for the type of panel, followed by two 2 digit numbers for the # of 1" slots and the max number of poles, followed by a letter code for the type of main, followed by a 1 or 3 for the phases, then a 3 digit number that is either 100 or 225, denoting the bus rating.
I have a Gould/ITE panel in my house. The numbers on it are:
G4040MB1200

So given your description there is also a 200 bus rating.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
I have a Gould/ITE panel in my house. The numbers on it are:
G4040MB1200

So given your description there is also a 200 bus rating.
Or else the rating is actually for the panel (largest allowed main breaker) instead of the bus.
Depending on the brand a 100A panel may have a 125A or 100A bus and a 200A panel could have a 200A or 225A bus.
Very important to the PVers facing the 120% rule.
 

kwired

Electron manager
I have a Gould/ITE panel in my house. The numbers on it are:
G4040MB1200

So given your description there is also a 200 bus rating.
I have to disagree that the last three digits is the bus rating. This type of numbering seems to be somewhat consistent across other manufacturers as well, some have different order of the numbers but use very similar method of designating the product with these numbers. Pretty sure that is a main breaker panel and the 200 at the end is the setting of the main breaker, at least the one that was factory supplied.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
100A is kinda the universal rule of thumb but you have to look at the paperwork inside the panel to be sure.

The only problem I see with using a 100A breaker is stuffing the wire in the panel. I like easy when it's a choice so I'd opt for a 60 or 70A breaker.
Question.

At 100 amp. Would that be # 2 at 95a and go to next higher ocp or would # 1 be required ?

Thanks
 

kwired

Electron manager
Question.

At 100 amp. Would that be # 2 at 95a and go to next higher ocp or would # 1 be required ?

Thanks
Asuming your #2 at 95A is coming from 60C ampacity column.

You very likely can use 75C table which allows #3.

If you for some reason need to use 60C table then #2 at 95 A is permissible as long as your calculated load doesn't exceed 95A and can still be protected at next size higher OCPD of 100 A.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Thank you

If the breaker is rated for 75 degrees #3.
If the breaker is rated for 60 degrees and calculation is 95 or under # 2.
If the breaker is rated for 60 degrees and calculation is over 95 then # 1.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Thank you

If the breaker is rated for 75 degrees #3.
If the breaker is rated for 60 degrees and calculation is 95 or under # 2.
If the breaker is rated for 60 degrees and calculation is over 95 then # 1.
Keep in mind that calculation includes 100% of non continuous load and 125% of continuous load.

The type of breaker you are dealing with doesn't come with a 100% rating AFAIK so that aspect doesn't come into play in your application.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Thank you for that. I visited the sight again. Their are two 150 amp panels fed from a I line
That I line has the two 150 amp and multiple 30's and 20's below it. It's bolt on

I will post a pic and hope it comes through from this iPad.

I'm thinking it would be better to get the new 100 amp panel from there rather than the stab in 150 amp panel

The existing older breakers are QE. and the newer are QB Siemens

I called Siemens but the reach can't confirm numbers

There's only a plate on the cover I will try to post plate also

Thoughts about taking the 100 from here instead ?

Thank you
 

ritelec

Senior Member
:- )

You lost me.

I have a pic of the older breaker.

EQB.

newer is BQ



what gives. QB. or BQ. or BQE or EQB ??

A horse by any other name ??


What's the difference now with BL and BQ ???

Thank you
 

norcal

Senior Member
:- )

You lost me.

I have a pic of the older breaker.

EQB.

newer is BQ



what gives. QB. or BQ. or BQE or EQB ??

A horse by any other name ??


What's the difference now with BL and BQ ???

Thank you
BQ has the attachment tab higher then the BL.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Reply from Siemens.

Mounting hardware straps from bus are rated to accept any amp of same type breaker.
 
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