Green energy - house of cards.....

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ActionDave said:
I hope, at the least, you provide those who partake of your garbage an ice chest and some plastic ware.
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I used to grow tomatoes in my yard to feed the homeless people living in the woods next to my house. Not intentionally, though. :D
 
kwired said:
I have said that before about how I would choose to sit at home vs losing money while working. But there is a big difference between being employed @ $20.00/hr with no additional expense other than maybe what it takes for you to get to the job Vs. contracting yourself at $20.00 hr when your operating costs are more than $20.00/ hr.
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I'm sorry if I was unclear - I didn't mean to say that it wasn't worth going to work for $20/hr as an employee, and I thought the separate paragraphs would make that clear. My comment regarding $20/hr was that 30 years ago that was a very good salary, but with today's economy would only just barely get you into the middle class, in some parts of the country and depending on the size of your family (operating costs ;) ). Even so, it still would be decent income for an electrician from what I see. I have never earned $20/hr working for someone else as an electrician, even if benefits had been included. If I had, I would have been able to pay my bills, maybe even buy a house someday and I probably would never have had the motivation to start my own business again. As it was, I was earning $16/hr with no benefits and little chance of a 40 hour week. That was impossible to maintain unless I moved my family to public housing.
 
PetrosA said:
I'm sorry if I was unclear - I didn't mean to say that it wasn't worth going to work for $20/hr as an employee, and I thought the separate paragraphs would make that clear. My comment regarding $20/hr was that 30 years ago that was a very good salary, but with today's economy would only just barely get you into the middle class, in some parts of the country and depending on the size of your family (operating costs ;) ). Even so, it still would be decent income for an electrician from what I see. I have never earned $20/hr working for someone else as an electrician, even if benefits had been included. If I had, I would have been able to pay my bills, maybe even buy a house someday and I probably would never have had the motivation to start my own business again. As it was, I was earning $16/hr with no benefits and little chance of a 40 hour week. That was impossible to maintain unless I moved my family to public housing.
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That's what seperates you from the ones sitting at home and whinning they don't make enough money. You have done something about it. If you work hard, and make a good living, do you want to fund those that have no desire to work, just to draw a paycheck? Probably not. That is whats great about this country, if you have the drive to make it, you will find a way.
 
hillbilly1 said:
That's what seperates you from the ones sitting at home and whinning they don't make enough money. You have done something about it. If you work hard, and make a good living, do you want to fund those that have no desire to work, just to draw a paycheck? Probably not. That is whats great about this country, if you have the drive to make it, you will find a way.
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That's not necessarily so. There are plenty of folks at the moment who have plenty of drive and desire to work who are on unemployment or in sub-subsistence jobs. I know that personally; up until about 18 months ago I was one of them. I clawed my way back into the work force after my getting laid off, but it took me nearly three years to do it. The able-bodied folks that are content to sit at home on the dole are a tiny minority and don't cost the average taxpayer enough to register.
 
ggunn said:
If green energy is a house of cards, that is a very unfortunate thing for the human race because eventually it will be the only house we have.
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Sorry, I did not mean it that way and perhaps failed to clarify. Any form of energy -- or for that matter any product, or service -- is good, if it is efficiently developed based on free market principles. What is not good if that product has an assigned value. You have seen the Marxism based economic sytems collapse. They operated on the same principles as green energy policies in the West seem to develop, by market and pricing manipulation. The hidden fact is that all those 'subsidies' are denied to other enterprises that would produce honest return and creation of real wealth. Green energies may become competitive on their own right, but for most the time and technology is not there yet.
 
weressl said:
That is just completely and absolutely untrue.
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Sorry, but it is true. The lazy stay-at-home bum is largely a myth perpetuated for political reasons. Most of the genuinely lazy folks I know are wealthy.
 
weressl said:
Sorry, I did not mean it that way and perhaps failed to clarify. Any form of energy -- or for that matter any product, or service -- is good, if it is efficiently developed based on free market principles. What is not good if that product has an assigned value. You have seen the Marxism based economic sytems collapse. They operated on the same principles as green energy policies in the West seem to develop, by market and pricing manipulation. The hidden fact is that all those 'subsidies' are denied to other enterprises that would produce honest return and creation of real wealth. Green energies may become competitive on their own right, but for most the time and technology is not there yet.
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The subsidies provided to fossil fuel enterprises dwarf those bestowed upon green energy initiatives by an order of magnitude or two, as if Exxon and their ilk needed them to stay in business. The "free market" does not exist in the real world.
 
ggunn said:
The subsidies provided to fossil fuel enterprises dwarf those bestowed upon green energy initiatives by an order of magnitude or two, as if Exxon and their ilk needed them to stay in business. The "free market" does not exist in the real world.
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Does the free market include royalty free extraction of minerals from public lands. Why not charge royalties for the people's minerals to help reduce the deficit?
 
ggunn said:
That's not necessarily so. There are plenty of folks at the moment who have plenty of drive and desire to work who are on unemployment or in sub-subsistence jobs. I know that personally; up until about 18 months ago I was one of them. I clawed my way back into the work force after my getting laid off, but it took me nearly three years to do it. The able-bodied folks that are content to sit at home on the dole are a tiny minority and don't cost the average taxpayer enough to register.
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I have a neighbor that was complaining yesterday that he's been unemployed for three years now, he is a Union machinist. He refuses to work for a non Union company, so he has been just fishing and hunting for the past three years.

weressl said:
That is just completely and absolutely untrue.
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I totally agree.
 
fmtjfw said:
Does the free market include royalty free extraction of minerals from public lands. Why not charge royalties for the people's minerals to help reduce the deficit?
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And royalties on the wind, sun energy, etc that are on public property? How about the satellites using the space over my property?

In truth, taxes help ensure there aren't royalty-free extractions. There is also the public good to consider.
 
You guys are better electricians then politicians. You sound like a bunch of old women arguing over bridge.

The purpose of the green initiative is a cleaner environment. The political BS is secondary, try to see it for what it is. It will cost some money but its worth it.

All energy is subsidized one way or another don't get hung up on it. If you think its a fad this time and your not keeping up with the technologies your going to find yourself outdated pretty quickly.

Anyone seen the encyclopedia salesman lately?
 
Gold said:
.All energy is subsidized one way or another don't get hung up on it. If you think its a fad this time and your not keeping up with the technologies your going to find yourself outdated pretty quickly.

Anyone seen the encyclopedia salesman lately?
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Anyone seen a solar installation pay off without tax credits since the 1970's?
 
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