Habitable Rooms - Lighting Outlet

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mrmark

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210.70 A (1)
Can a paddle fan be used in a room with two switch legs connected to fan with intention of future light kit? No light currently on fan. Does this
meet the requirement of lighting outlet under 210.70 A (1) and 100
Definitions?

Thanks,
Mark
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
mrmark said:
210.70 A (1)
Can a paddle fan be used in a room with two switch legs connected to fan with intention of future light kit? No light currently on fan. Does this
meet the requirement of lighting outlet under 210.70 A (1) and 100
Definitions?

Thanks,
Mark
A fan is not a light. If you had a switched receptacle that would be acceptable.
 

Dennis Alwon

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rcarroll said:
IMO, it does meet the requirements. Code requires a lighting outlet. The box with the switch legs is that outlet.
After I responded so quickly I realized that a switched outlet meets code so why wouldn't a wire for a future light. I still have my doubts if it would pass everywhere. If you install an outlet for an overhead light and put a blank plate on it then it would not pass around here. We put in temp. keyless porcelain fixture.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I suggest wiring a receptacle to one of the switches now, and when a light-kit is added, bypass the switch for the receptacle then.

By the way, whenever I wire for a fan, I use 3-conductor cable, and connect the light-kit (usually blue) wire to the red, so if/when a light-kit is added, the canopy does not need to be dropped.
 

jack horner

Banned
Location
America
Dennis Alwon said:
After I responded so quickly I realized that a switched outlet meets code so why wouldn't a wire for a future light. I still have my doubts if it would pass everywhere. If you install an outlet for an overhead light and put a blank plate on it then it would not pass around here. We put in temp. keyless porcelain fixture.
How would you plug the lamp into the "future light kit"?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
rcarroll said:
IMO, it does meet the requirements. Code requires a lighting outlet. The box with the switch legs is that outlet.
And when the inspector asks you to make a light come on when you operate that switch . . . ?
 

rcarroll

Senior Member
LarryFine said:
And when the inspector asks you to make a light come on when you operate that switch . . . ?
I am the inspector. A light does not come on when I hit the switch of a switched recep. 410.12 requires "in a completed installation, each outlet box shall be provided with a cover unless covered by means of a luminaire.....
 

mark henderson

Senior Member
Location
Leander Texas
Well I had not looked at that way but that is a good point. Even though the light kit is not installed there is still (an outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendent cord terminating in a lampholder)
IMO it is acceptable.

Mark
 

1793

Senior Member
so, when a tree falls in the Forrest, is there sound if no one is there to hear it?

If you have a switched outlet and nothing plugged into it, how would this be different than an overhead box wired with nothing connected. Both could still be tested for inspection.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
1793 said:
so, when a tree falls in the Forrest, is there sound if no one is there to hear it?

If you have a switched outlet and nothing plugged into it, how would this be different than an overhead box wired with nothing connected. Both could still be tested for inspection.
I think the difference is the room is ready for a lamp with a switched outlet. The other way the HO would have to buy a light kit and get it installed. This is likely to not happen soon or they would have put the light in right away. Everyone has a lamp usually--- I have had HO ask me to hang a fan without a light and I won't do it. If they want a light then buy the light it is cheaper than the fan.

Why not put the light up and buy the fan later. That's what we do.
 

charlie b

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1793 said:
If you have a switched outlet and nothing plugged into it, how would this be different than an overhead box wired with nothing connected. Both could still be tested for inspection.
The difference is that it is within the average homeowner’s skill to plug in a floor lamp.

1793 said:
so, when a tree falls in the Forrest, is there sound if no one is there to hear it?
No, the question is, “When a tree falls in a forest, and a man is not there to hear it, will his wife say that the man is still wrong?” :D
 

Mike03a3

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
mrmark said:
210.70 A (1)
Can a paddle fan be used in a room with two switch legs connected to fan with intention of future light kit? No light currently on fan. Does this
meet the requirement of lighting outlet under 210.70 A (1) and 100
Definitions?

Thanks,
Mark

This same topic hit 279 replies last Fall: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=80100&highlight=light+outlet

Note that the original post in that thread was the result of failing final inspection, so we know how at least one inspector felt about it. The rest was the usual battle to an exhausted draw, with all parties clinging firmly to their positions.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
All the code requires is an OUTLET.A fixture is not required.The outlet can be a box with caped off wires and a cover.And that is exactly what is at the bottom of that fan.Nothing says the switch cant control more than the light,it simply says wall switch controled.So if the fan comes on with it there is no violation. would say that box in the ceiling is an outlet.What customer puts on it is not the inspectors problem.Now if it does not permit a light kit then the inspector could tag you or say remove the fan and blank it off.
 

charlie b

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Staff member
Location
Seattle, WA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Jim W in Tampa said:
The outlet can be a box with caped off wires and a cover. And that is exactly what is at the bottom of that fan.
I don't want to open up an old discussion, and I haven't the energy to read through the old arguments. But let me suggest that some might think the space at the bottom of the fan is not part of the "premises wiring system." So it can't be an outlet (lighting or otherwise). I think that point might have been made in that other, long thread. It might even have been me who made it, but I don't recall.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Jim W in Tampa said:
All the code requires is an OUTLET.A fixture is not required.The outlet can be a box with caped off wires and a cover.And that is exactly what is at the bottom of that fan.Nothing says the switch cant control more than the light,it simply says wall switch controled.So if the fan comes on with it there is no violation. would say that box in the ceiling is an outlet.What customer puts on it is not the inspectors problem.Now if it does not permit a light kit then the inspector could tag you or say remove the fan and blank it off.
I dunno.

Expecting that a new blank cover will be removed to install a luminaire soon upon moving in is more reasonable than expecting that a new fan will be removed for the same reason.

N'est pas?
 

roger

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Location
Fl
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Electrician
I just want everybody to read the old thread, all of it. :grin:

Roger
 
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