Habitable Rooms - Lighting Outlet

[roger]

I just want every forum member to send me $10.

(Not really. I want $20)

How does it feel to want? :grin:

I don't know, if it were me I would read the thread (as painfull as it maybe) before I sent you any money.

Roger

 

[JohnE]

Save the money. I took part in the thread iirc. Everyone agreed.

Half with the inspector, and half with the contractor.

 

[raider1]

I just want every forum member to send me $10.

The check is in the mail.

Chris

 

[rcarroll]

I read 3 pages of the other thread. That was enough. Maybe time to nip this one.

 

[roger]

I read 3 pages of the other thread. That was enough. Maybe time to nip this one.

Not yet, Larry just made his first $10.00

Roger

 

[iwire]

I am keeping my mouth shut and my $20.00. :grin:

 

[mayjong]

from the other (neverending)thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim W in Tampa
Good thing your not an inspector cause nec says blanks are ok

how does an inspector test the circuit? remove the plates and lick the wires?
i would never pass this installation, because you can't show me it works... i
" inspect" and i surelly can't "inspect" this installation....

 

[iwire]

i would never pass this installation, because you can't show me it works...

I don't think I have to show you it works.

We have done many jobs leaving blank plates in place of future dinning room fixtures.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is exactly what the problem is with using the code as it is written and not intended. I know many will say how are we suppose to know what is intended. So here you go --- wire the entire house and blank plate every lighting outlet that is required. Now we have a house with all the required outlets but no lights. Is this a safety issue?

Think--- sometimes we have to look beyond the actual words. This to me is nothing more than an attempt to circumvent what is intended. I doubt if anyone here can honestly say that a house with no light fixtures installed would not be a sfety issue.

We can play semantic games all we want but who wins in the end if a HO falls over something on the floor and the family lawyer sues the EC because he/she says we don't need a light fixture in the room just a place to put one.

Poor grandma going down the stairs at night. We will be saying goodnight granny for sure.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am keeping my mouth shut and my $20.00. :grin:

I don't think I have to show you it works.

We have done many jobs leaving blank plates in place of future dinning room fixtures.

Oops--- $20.00 bucks Bob

 

[roger]

OK, I'm bringing the ROP where CMP 2 said they don't require fixtures (at least in these locations) to the table just to see how many will say that the CMP doesn't mean what they are saying.

2-251 Log #575 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.70)
__________________________________________________ __________
Submitter: Alan H. Nadon, City of Elkhart, IN
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
210.70 Lighting Outlets Required. Lighting outlets, that provide illumination,
shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), (C).
Substantiation: As currently worded, only 210.70(A)(2)(b) requires a lighting
outlet to actually illuminate anything. The definition of a lighting outlet, in
Article 100 does not require anything more than a junction box with switched
conductors intended to be connected to a lampholder, light fixture, or pendent
light. A proposal has also been submitted to change or amend the definition of
lighting outlet. Proper illumination ensures safe movement for persons thus
preventing many accidents.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The objective of the NEC is to provide the requirement for the lighting outlet. The requirements specific to illumination are in the building code.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

OK, I'm bringing the ROP where CMP 2 said they don't require fixtures (at least in these locations) to the table just to see how many will say that the CMP doesn't mean what they are saying.
Roger

The bottom line is if the building code requires them we have to install them. NO??? It's the same for smoke detectors -- not in NEC but we have to install them if its not part of a security system or other approved system

 

[roger]

Dennis, that is exactly the point, it will have to be another code that requires the fixtures and if there is not another code that requires them an inspector certainly can't.

Roger

 

[mpd]

the NEC does not require the light fixtures, illumination is required by the building code, whats the point of blanking off required lighting outlets if they are required to be installed for a CO

 

[roger]

MPD, unless the particular area has some adopted building code requiring fixtures, blanking the outlets would necessary before turning on the power.


Roger

 

[mpd]

roger
my point is if the building code requires illumination, whats the point of blanking off boxes

 

[roger]

I agree if there is a Building Code in place that that requires fixtures. Do you have a local Building Code requiring fixtures be installed in these areas?

If so, what would be the article and section of the particular code that you would put on your red tag?


Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I just want every forum member to send me $10.

(Not really. I want $20)

Check is in the mail

 

[mpd]

roger

i am not saying i would red tag anything, i am saying if the building code requires illumination at certain locations, (i do not have my IRC at home to check), what would be the point of blanking off boxes and scheduling a final inspection

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

from the other (neverending)thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim W in Tampa
Good thing your not an inspector cause nec says blanks are ok

how does an inspector test the circuit? remove the plates and lick the wires?
i would never pass this installation, because you can't show me it works... i
" inspect" and i surelly can't "inspect" this installation....

Try inspecting in Tampa,we get buildings signed off with no electric,they test nothing
NEC says nothing about being permitted or inspected