Handyman doing electrical work.

[iwire]

Bob - not trying to yank your chain... There are limits to that... This one is extreme and ticks me off just thinking about it!

Damn Mark no kidding but the topic was handymen not rapes. Give me a break dragging a rape into a talk about DIYs.

To each their own, if you want to spend your time chasing away handymen so be it. I could not be bothered.

 

[iwire]

Yes, that is the problem with letting it slide, as a licensed contractor, you can't support the unlicensed activity without putting your license, and living at risk.

Of course I can, I am not obligated to be a licensing enforcement official.

Your statement makes as much senses as saying if I do not report a speeder I put my license and right to drive at risk.

 

[mivey]

Of course I can, I am not obligated to be a licensing enforcement official.

Your statement makes as much senses as saying if I do not report a speeder I put my license and right to drive at risk.

As much as I would like to play cop (or maximum overdrive) when I'm on the road, that is a good point.

 

[Dnkldorf]

Because they'll claim to do anything at low-ball costs... I find them everywhere... Residential - commercial TI's, and few times installing industrial equipment...

Let me put it another way.

There are customers who only want the lowest price on something. This is the area that the low-ballers operate. I know that and you know that.

Why are you catering to these people?

I have yet to see a low ball hack work in any of the plants I do. The customers (General Managers, VP's, owners) are far too educated to fall for their crap, and wouldn't pay them if they installed sub-par work. Highly educated people are my favorite customers. Dumb assses looking for the cheap are not.

 

[iwire]

I would like to make clear, I am all for jumping in to save a person from direct harm, that is a moral obligation I put on myself and I am sure most of you would as well.

But I am not going jump in between a person and there hiring of a handyman to do work. It's just not my business or my concern. You will never eliminate this type of work anymore then you could wipe out illegal sports gambling.

 

[76nemo]

This happened to me about 3 or 4 years ago. I was wiring an addition to the back of the house, adding 2 bedrooms. I looked at the jobsite when I gave my bid. 6 weeks later GC calls and the job is now ready to rough in. I go and find the kitchen is in the process of getting remodeled and there is new wiring going on. I questioned GC, he says owner hired her own people, not his job and he has nothing to do with it. At this stage handydandy electric and drywall is covering with sheetrock. I finished my rough in, called for inspection, and informed inspector about the kitchen work. Drywall came off the next day. Owner asks me if I can cover with a permit for handydandy. Nope. Find somebody else. So she did. She was not my best friend after that, but I still work for the GC that did the addition. I just do not support unlicensed work, no way, no how. Hope she found out that cheap is not always so cheap after all......

Couldn't be put any better. Tough titty said the cheap kitty.

 

[Power Tech]

Of course I can, I am not obligated to be a licensing enforcement official.

Your statement makes as much senses as saying if I do not report a speeder I put my license and right to drive at risk.

Another point about this situation that is overlooked is:

What if the guy finds out you turned him in and retaliates.

I don't want anybody coming up and wrapping a bender around my neck.

I think that would leave the state open to litigation.

If I lost all my teeth, because they "required me" to play cop, I would sue.

Vandalism and my families safety is also a concern.

 

[nakulak]

Let me put it another way.

There are customers who only want the lowest price on something. This is the area that the low-ballers operate. I know that and you know that.

Why are you catering to these people?

I have yet to see a low ball hack work in any of the plants I do. The customers (General Managers, VP's, owners) are far too educated to fall for their crap, and wouldn't pay them if they installed sub-par work. Highly educated people are my favorite customers. Dumb assses looking for the cheap are not.

while I agree with you for the most part (especially the part about seeking out and keeping good clients who are willing to pay good money for a good job), I think that you would be misleading yourself to assume that persons running successful businesses are automatically going to pay a decent rate. You probably have some good clients, and they are smart, and that is good. There are plenty of clients out there that don't know the difference between a crack and a hack, and/or are pressured by desire or finances to mitigate expenses, and end up for whatever reason hiring hacks, or going with the cheap prices and ending up in a less than ideal situation. I've seen hack work in some suprising places, but its often stuffed up in ceilings or crammed in panels so that its predominantly hidden from view of clients who might not have the savvy to know that they were had. And just like there are hacks that go after the low ballers, there are just as many hacks that charge the full rate and still get over on the clients.

 

[growler]

To each their own, if you want to spend your time chasing away handymen so be it. I could not be bothered.

You will never eliminate this type of work anymore then you could wipe out illegal sports gambling.

It's a known fact that you will never get rid of the roaches and rats in the world but if you have a problem with them you still get the exterminator. I wouldn't call the pest control service because a neighbors house has problems.

What most of you are saying is that this does not effect me or my ability to earn a living so I'm not interested.

What you see as far as comment go is exactly what you would expect to see. Those in the residential service business are interested in illegal work because we are effected by it and those that are not in the business could care less because they are not effected by it. That's just human nature, I don't worry about problems that have no effect on my life.

 

[satcom]

It's a known fact that you will never get rid of the roaches and rats in the world but if you have a problem with them you still get the exterminator. I wouldn't call the pest control service because a neighbors house has problems.

What most of you are saying is that this does not effect me or my ability to earn a living so I'm not interested.

What you see as far as comment go is exactly what you would expect to see. Those in the residential service business are interested in illegal work because we are effected by it and those that are not in the business could care less because they are not effected by it. That's just human nature, I don't worry about problems that have no effect on my life.

I see it the same way, if they come to my jobs, or they are openly creating a public safety hazzard, there is no reason to go out of your way to look for the roaches.

 

[growler]

Highly educated people are my favorite customers. Dumb assses looking for the cheap are not.

If you open up a gourmet restaurant you may appeal to 2% of the population. These people have certian taste in food and will pay more for quality and better service.

The bulk of the business, any service business, is done in the other 98% of the population that is not quite so discerning. There is more money made selling hamburgers than selling gourmet foods. There are lots of people out there wanting a burger and someone has to provide them. Now just because they are selling burgers to the 98% percent of the population that are not quite epicures doesn't mean there should be no regulation about the amount of road kill allowed in each burger. Every week restaurants are busted for rat droppings, roaches and spoiled foods and we burger eaters have no complaints about the health department trying to protect us.

A niche market is great but it is limited in scope. The bulk of business will always be dealing with the general public and not a niche market.

 

[e57]

Damn Mark no kidding but the topic was handymen not rapes. Give me a break dragging a rape into a talk about DIYs.

To each their own, if you want to spend your time chasing away handymen so be it. I could not be bothered.

Sorry but every time I think "aiding and abetting", I think of that lately - and our law about handymen doing work over the limit to require licensing uses the exact same term.... I know it is not the same extreme - but as mentioned there are limits to looking the other way.

However, if "I" with a license know "Jackal Trade" doesn't have a license on what can be considered the same project - I could get stuck with his legal mess at the end - just by being there. If I knowingly contract with him on the same project address, at the same time, I need to protect myself. If he's working down the road... How would I know-why should I care?!?!? (Well unless he just lopped the neutral first under load, or high legged everything in a restaurant with a residence above - both of which I have seen - and I called the city on both...)

 

[e57]

Let me put it another way.

Why are you catering to these people?

Let me put it this way - they are everywhere... I find them in every market. For the rich - for the poor - for high dollar commercial... Everywhere! Maybe where you are they are not - and maybe there is a reason for that - let me know...

 

[aline]

But I am not going jump in between a person and there hiring of a handyman to do work. It's just not my business or my concern. You will never eliminate this type of work anymore then you could wipe out illegal sports gambling.

I think your views might change if you owned a business.

What if you opened a restuarant that sold mexican food?
You did it all legally with all the proper permits and licenses.

A guy shows up with a portable mexican food stand and parks it right in front of your restuarant. He has no permit or licensing as required by the city. He's operating illegally. He's undercutting your prices and hurting your business.

Would it be your concern then or would you feel it's none of your business what he does?

You'll never wipe out prostitution or drug dealing either but if I see it going on in my neighborhood I'm going to report it.
Let them go to another neighborhood where people feel it's none of their business or concern.

 

[aline]

Well then I guess I am screwed as there is quite often unlicensed work going on in the same buildings I am doing licensed permitted work. Seems like that should be the AHJs issue when they come out for my work. I am not an arm of the licensing enforcement officials even if they want me to do their job for them.

In multi-tenant commercial properties I really do not see how my job is permitting and licensing enforcement of anybody but myself.

What if the company you were working for was bidding on another job in this same building and some unlicensed company that wasn't getting a permit and doing the job legally under bid the company you worked for and got the job? The owner of this building wanted to save a few bucks.

What if the company you were working for was counting on this job to keep you employed and without it they were going to have to lay you off?

Would you feel differently about it then?

Would you file a complaint or would you just ignore it?

 

[satcom]

I think Bob's view of not jumping in between a homeowner and a handyman is good advice, you can make the owner aware that permits and inspections are a legal requirement, and you just want to make them aware of the laws, so they are protected, that should be it, but in my opinion also, jumping and making am issue out of it may not be wise.

 

[Power Tech]

I think your views might change if you owned a business.

What if you opened a restuarant that sold mexican food?
You did it all legally with all the proper permits and licenses.

A guy shows up with a portable mexican food stand and parks it right in front of your restuarant. He has no permit or licensing as required by the city. He's operating illegally. He's undercutting your prices and hurting your business.

Would it be your concern then or would you feel it's none of your business what he does?

You'll never wipe out prostitution or drug dealing either but if I see it going on in my neighborhood I'm going to report it.
Let them go to another neighborhood where people feel it's none of their business or concern.

As long as they don't point them in the direction of the guy making the call.

Street vendors are regulated and require licensing and inspections here.

 

[e57]

Some stuff from "oh the - horror" searches...

How to pick the right hack...

 

[readydave8]

Electical wiring in residences can be done very poorly and still work, it can be very dangerous and not hurt someone or cause a fire. We have all seen old work that was a complete disaster but did'nt cause a complete disaster. Bad plumbing show up as a leak, bad wiring as a death.

I don't go out of my way to report handymen, I guess I never have reported any to an authority, but always have pointed dangerous work out to the GC or homeowner, and tried to explain why it was dangerous.

 

[readydave8]

If someone was doing unpermitted work in a building I was working on, whether or not I had pulled a permit for my work, my attitude would be different, something would have to change, only bad could come from such a situation.