Handyman doing electrical work.

[peter d]

The contractor buys from a supply house that market it up 100 to 200% or even much more on small items,

I don't know where you got that information from but it's not correct. The only items in a supply house that get marked up that much are showroom light fixtures. Not the $5 jelly jar or mushroom light builder's specials but the really nice stuff that people like to put in their McMansions. Commodity items like pipe and wire typically are marked up 0-5% while most typical items that an electrician buys are marked up anywhere from 5-20%. Dimmers are one of the most profitable items sold with a markup of around 30-40%.

At any rate, suppliers are in a fiercely competitive battle with each other and if a supplier would start marking things up 100-200% he might as well change the name of his store to "True Value Hardware." I have some authority on this because I worked for a supplier for a time. The branch I worked for made money on volume, not high markup.

 

[satcom]

I don't know where you got that information from but it's not correct. The only items in a supply house that get marked up that much are showroom light fixtures. Not the $5 jelly jar or mushroom light builder's specials but the really nice stuff that people like to put in their McMansions. Commodity items like pipe and wire typically are marked up 0-5% while most typical items that an electrician buys are marked up anywhere from 5-20%. Dimmers are one of the most profitable items sold with a markup of around 30-40%.

At any rate, suppliers are in a fiercely competitive battle with each other and if a supplier would start marking things up 100-200% he might as well change the name of his store to "True Value Hardware." I have some authority on this because I worked for a supplier for a time. The branch I worked for made money on volume, not high markup.

And when you worked there, I am sure the owners shared all their privilaged information with you, if your happy with the making it on volume story, then that is nice.

 

[Sparky555]

The majority of you guys just KILL me.....nothin' personal.....it's just that it sounds as if you are crying about the "handyman" taking your bread & butter. "This guy's a hack", "this guy's unlicensed"....etc. Instead of worrying about reporting the guy, why can't we focus on what we might do to SELL ourselves to customers??? There is a reason the "handymen" are taking work from you, and i think it is a direct result of not being competitive enough on pricing, and also trying to inflate prices by trying to sell the customer things they may not actually need. Not accusing anyone in here, but i have also heard of ridiculous markups on materials....anyone ever see a $5 stick of 1/2" EMT???? Just sayin'........

This is too funny. Take a $10/hr. cash handyman on T&M. He goes to the store for a stick of emt. It's a 45 minute trip. How much does the emt cost the customer? Handymen are well know for having almost nothing in their vehicle and going to the store often.

 

[peter d]

And when you worked there, I am sure the owners shared all their privilaged information with you, if your happy with the making it on volume story, then that is nice.

Whatever you say. :roll:

 

[dmagyar]

almost electricians

almost electricians

In northern California no one seems to care. The CSLB only wants to get on television with their infrequent "stings". I've talked to insurance agents they don't seem to understand the questions about unqualified workers doing electrical work for homeowners. Problem is when you do work for anyone that has employeed someone with varing levels of skill, you end up becoming the "deep Pockets" that they'll (the homeowner) will seek to remedy any loss because you're the professional, and have insurrance.

I don't want to sound paranoid but I've even considered having new clients sign a sort of declaration about if they've ever had someone work on their electrical system who wasn't licensed or qualified.

One prospective client told me he'd had some electrical fires because of work he or someone unknown did, but now needed me to fix them!

I respectfully declined. I expect that he's not the only one out there so beware of what you're getting into.

 

[220/221]

anyone ever see a $5 stick of 1/2" EMT???? Just sayin'........

I have truckloads of $5 1/2" EMT.

I'd have to be a chump to buy it, stock it, deliver, warranty and account for it for anything less.

 

[bansheerick]

Cover yourself, let the inspector know. When it burns you did the right thing. To many handyman taking our professional work.

 

[chris1971]

The rest of the story

The rest of the story

I was hired by the homeowner to do a 200 amp service upgrade. After completing the upgrade the homeowner wanted me to install a circuit for in floor heat in a bathroom. I did and I also noticed some unfinished electrical work in that same bathroom that a handyman was doing. The homeowner specifically stated to me that the handyman was doing the other electrical because he (homeowner) said electricians charge to much. I let it slide and I noted on my permit only the work I performed. I met the inspector at the job to go through the work I completed. I did not say anything to the inspector until he asked me about the other wiring and that is when I told him to ask the home owner. I'm not trying to get revenge and I'm not going to lie to the inspector to cover up someone else shoddy workmanship.

 

[220/221]

I let it slide and I noted on my permit only the work I performed. I met the inspector at the job to go through the work I completed. I did not say anything to the inspector until he asked me about the other wiring and that is when I told him to ask the home owner.

THAT'S the way to handle it

 

[readydave8]

I was hired by the homeowner to do a 200 amp service upgrade. After completing the upgrade the homeowner wanted me to install a circuit for in floor heat in a bathroom. I did and I also noticed some unfinished electrical work in that same bathroom that a handyman was doing. The homeowner specifically stated to me that the handyman was doing the other electrical because he (homeowner) said electricians charge to much. I let it slide and I noted on my permit only the work I performed. I met the inspector at the job to go through the work I completed. I did not say anything to the inspector until he asked me about the other wiring and that is when I told him to ask the home owner. I'm not trying to get revenge and I'm not going to lie to the inspector to cover up someone else shoddy workmanship.

good for you showing anger would only have hurt you being vengeful would have made you look petty but you did what had to be done in a mature fashion.

 

[satnad]

don_resqcapt19, I couldn't cite a court case and that's always been one of those "they say" type of things. I did contact three ins. companies; Hartford said that they wouldn't pay, State Farm and Farm Family kind of wiggled around and said, "depends on how the policy was written", etc. My feeling is that it?s their way of saying they would pay as long as it wasn't blatant. To sum it up:
HO policy; HO does work and screws up, their ins. company pays.
My policy; I screw up (on a job) and my ins. company pays.
Hack policy; hack screws up? see rule 1. So why do I need insurance?
We live in a litigious society, it?s some peoples first impulse; little Sally got her feelings hurt playing tag in the schoolyard? Sue the school. You knew an unlicensed person was there doing work and you didn?t report it to anyone? We?ll sue your insurance company. We may not get the full amount from them, but it?s more than we?d get from the hack. Perhaps I?m being paranoid or lawyers have left a bad taste in my mouth?

I describe, in the permit, EXACTLY the work I am doing and also on the invoice. I could not care less if they wire anything else with lamp cord cable or who EVER does it! It is not my business at all! Electricians have a tendency of being good samaritans and shoot themselves in the foot. Then would you go around and repair anything you see wrong 'non code compliance wiring' without getting paid? Many good samaritans electricians do just that I notice.
We, electricians have no access to the home at all times, the homeowner/s can do anything they want in their home - they can have ANYONE DOING THEIR WIRING. We ARE NOT THE ELECTRICAL POLICE AND HAVE NO BUSINESS IN REPORTING ANYTHING EITHER!

 

[satnad]

How quicky we forget one of the greatest movies of all times, "Animal House". John Belushi was giving a pep talk to the guys and uses the bombing of pearl harbor by the Germans as an example. His knowledge of history wasn't very good but the meaning was clear, "It's not over until we say it's over". :grin::grin:

The one I remember is 'it is not over until the fat lady sings"

 

[satnad]

Ditto here folks. How many here like getting a slap in the face like that being told "He can do it cheaper" ? Oh and by the way he's not licensed or insured. I'd tell him AND his buddy to watch out.

I go through this a lot. In fact, happened again just last week. I couldn't get there same day and I called the next day to find he already found someone else. This WAS a loyal customer I've had for about 3 years. Loyality? Forget about it.

I let him (the owner) know that truth be told the local inspection department is getting VERY hard up for revenue, and they are not shy about issuing fines for unlicensed electrical work. I let him know point blank he better watch out both for the inspectors (i.e. maybe one could just show up?) & that Mr. Handyman BETTER have liability on the job cause he ain't gonna replace the house that he could just burn down. I just told him watch it, and let's get paid on this last bill you owe me... I put a little fire under a$$...

I'll sit back, file a lien so I do get paid, and watch him dig his own hole...

I don't deal with losers anymore...

Loyalty means nothing - How many calls would you get again from a homeowner when you already done all electrical work. Also "word of mouth never worked for me over 30 years with "NO COMPLAINS EVER"
As for a LIEN, it can be quite worthless! ALL they have to do is wait 2 years and it times itself out unless you want to pursue it and spend thousands to recover hundreds!

 

[satnad]

The little fire you see is from your bridges being burned. If I was your ex-customer, your unprofessionalism would prompt me to do everything in my power to black-list you from every friend, acquaintance, and contractor I knew. In this age of electronic networking and blogging, your 30 seconds of satisfaction could very well cost you much more.

The majority of the responses to this thread, and the many like it, leave me ashamed to be even remotely associated with this industry. And you guys wonder why so much bootleg work is being done? It is not always for cost.

Therefore, did you not just told everyone here you do unlicensed bootleg work!?

 

[satnad]

And then another point of view. It is illegal to willfully "aid and abeit" unlicensed contractors in my state. If you support it as a licensed contractor by not reporting unlicensed activity when it is happening on a project you are connected with it is considered as such. The penalty is revocation of the license awarded to you for a minimum of one calendar year if convicted of this by the Regulated Industries Department of the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs. When we apply for our contractors license the exact same scenerio is one we are presented with that results in that revocation if the contractors board decides you to be guilty and taking part in "aiding and abeiting" unlicensed contracting. It might be a stretch to find you guilty if you have no direct contractual obligation with the unlicensed party, and difficult to find you guilty, still you are by the requirements of the board to turn in any unlicensed contractors you find conducting such business.

So we are now also ELECTRICAL POLICE PEOPLE. While I am busy doing my job on a site I have to take out time to investigate other contractors? The GC or whoever hired such unlicensed person should be the one charged!

 

[macmikeman]

So we are now also ELECTRICAL POLICE PEOPLE. While I am busy doing my job on a site I have to take out time to investigate other contractors? The GC or whoever hired such unlicensed person should be the one charged!

And of course you never would report a violent crime in progress to the cops either for all the same reasons either right? Same goes for stumbling across corruption with tax payer money? Drug house next door? You keep quiet about that also, cause its not any of your concern either I bet right? I bet not. I bet you have several faces.....

 

[macmikeman]

As for a LIEN, it can be quite worthless! ALL they have to do is wait 2 years and it times itself out unless you want to pursue it and spend thousands to recover hundreds!

Satnad, lien laws vary from state to state. Your area may time out after two years, mine doesn't. Actually in my state a lien is step one, forclosure can be initiated from a mechanics lien and the lien holder is right at the front of the line to collect.

 

[nysprkdude]

As an AHJ, If I am aware that work beyond the scope of what the electrician pulled a permit for is taking place, I require that work to be covered by permit as well. It does not necessarly mean that the licensed electrician is compelled to add such to his permit, however; should he choose to do so, I expect them to thoroughly examine what has been "done by others" and to ammend his original permit to include the terminology that he is covering "work performed by others without a permit." This way, when the fire occurs 10 years down the road and the insurance investigator denotes the date code of the NM cable in the bathroom, there isn't an assumption that the permit granted to the original electrician, around the reasonable time for such cable to be installed, is indeed the work of the licensed professional who followed the rules. How much does the HO save when they are compelled to pay the licensed guy for the time it takes to ammend his permit and examine the un-licensed guy's work? If I see date-coded wire going to the panel I am requested to inspect....I denote such on the original permit and require that it be "covered" by a permit.

 

[LarryFine]

If I see date-coded wire going to the panel I am requested to inspect....I denote such on the original permit and require that it be "covered" by a permit.

Upon whom is that requirement encumbent? Who bears the burden of the permitting compliance?

 

[petersonra]

I have a customer that I'm doing some work for in MN. He has hired a handyman to do some of the electrical work because he told me that my prices are to high. What would you do?

A: Turn in the handyman to the state
B. Warn the home owner
C. Tell the AHJ

The correct answer is - Thank the customer for the work he gave you previously and offer your services for any future work.

A, B, and C will serve no useful purpose and just aggravate people (possibly including your customer).