Handyman-type job calls

[LarryFine]

I don't work 40 hours per week, but many of my business costs are the same as someone who does.

You're not doing anyone a service if you won't still be in business next year.

 

[Coppersmith]

I charge more than any of the amounts I've seen above and I'm constantly busy. There are a bunch of contractors in my area that charge more than me. I know this because I have seen their quotes. And they are busy. I once spoke with a Mr. Sparky tech and he told me they set their pricing at 30% higher than highest priced electricians in the market, and they are busy.

@Jerramundi is framing the debate like it's immoral or illegal to charge a higher rate than some people are willing to pay. This is just not true. As long as your potential client is fully aware of your price or rate ahead of doing the job, you are doing nothing wrong. It's up to the potential client to compare price, experience, licensing, insurance, reviews, and all other due diligence factors to select the contractor that best fits their needs. Upon hearing your price, some (or many) potential clients will say "no, you are too expensive". That's OK. You only want to work for the people who are willing to pay what you ask for.

From a pure economics stand point, a one-man-show contractor should charge as much as the market will bear because they are selling a limited resource, their labor hours. Your minimum charge must be the sum of all your operating costs plus a profit amount divided by the number hours you can bill. If you can't get that, you can't stay in business. But there is no maximum charge.

Economic theory says if you are not getting enough clients, you can lower your price, but you can also look for more clients (or different clients) and keep your price the same. And if you are getting more clients than you can service, you should raise your price and continue raising your price until you are no longer filling your schedule with jobs.

 

[Jerramundi]

I charge more than any of the amounts I've seen above and I'm constantly busy. There are a bunch of contractors in my area that charge more than me. I know this because I have seen their quotes. And they are busy. I once spoke with a Mr. Sparky tech and he told me they set their pricing at 30% higher than highest priced electricians in the market, and they are busy.

@Jerramundi is framing the debate like it's immoral or illegal to charge a higher rate than some people are willing to pay. This is just not true. As long as your potential client is fully aware of your price or rate ahead of doing the job, you are doing nothing wrong. It's up to the potential client to compare price, experience, licensing, insurance, reviews, and all other due diligence factors to select the contractor that best fits their needs. Upon hearing your price, some (or many) potential clients will say "no, you are too expensive". That's OK. You only want to work for the people who are willing to pay what you ask for.

From a pure economics stand point, a one-man-show contractor should charge as much as the market will bear because they are selling a limited resource, their labor hours. Your minimum charge must be the sum of all your operating costs plus a profit amount divided by the number hours you can bill. If you can't get that, you can't stay in business. But there is no maximum charge.

Economic theory says if you are not getting enough clients, you can lower your price, but you can also look for more clients (or different clients) and keep your price the same. And if you are getting more clients than you can service, you should raise your price and continue raising your price until you are no longer filling your schedule with jobs.

@Coppersmith Absolutely and unequivocally untrue that I've "framed the debate like it's illegal." Such a horrid mischaracterization is laced with personal bias and is nothing other than being emotionally defensive. I haven't said a single word that could be characterized as representative of illegality.

Morality on the other hand, is another story entirely... and subject to debate. Morality is NOT objective. There are NO objective moral truths. Morality is entirely subjective and culturally relative.

 

[Jerramundi]

@Coppersmith "Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you."

 

[Jerramundi]

If you want to have this discussion, I'm game... but let's open a new thread in Campfire Chat. I feel guilty taking over these threads of other people with legitimate questions/concerns, which was never my intention.

 

[Coppersmith]

My apologies to you @Jerramundi if you are offended. It was not my intention to offend you, only to dispute your statements. I don't believe my post has any personal attacks on you. Your post however is definitely a personal attack on me and I ask that you please keep this discourse civil. I also don't know why you are ranting about the word "vision". I never used that word.

 

[Jerramundi]

My apologies to you @Jerramundi if you are offended. It was not my intention to offend you, only to dispute your statements. I don't believe my post has any personal attacks on you. Your post however is definitely a personal attack on me and I ask that you please keep this discourse civil. I also don't know why you are ranting about the word "vision". I never used that word.

You addressed me personally first... and in said personal address, MISCHARACTERIZED my comments as implying illegality. There is no such reasonable interpretation of my comments. I take such a horrid mischaracterization somewhat personally and have the right to correct the record.

Your implication that my following responses are any sort of a degree of a "personal attack" on you is outright laughable and nothing short of an attempt to cry wolf.

My initial response did nothing other than respectfully refute your mischaracterization of my comments and briefly introduce some philosophical notions relative to your bringing up the topic of morality.

My second response was simply a quote from a brilliant social commentary called "The Boondocks," which I found relative to your mischaracterization of my comments and yes, somewhat humorous and personal... but hardly an "attack" by any means.

My third response was an invitation to carry on this discussion elsewhere in an attempt to be mindful and respectful of the OP... and it still stands.

 

[Greg1707]

Do any of you ever get calls from homeowners to do small tasks that any handyman would be able to do? Stuff like changing a few outlets/switches or light fixtures? Do you go and do the jobs, or do you tell them you're not interested? I've been getting a lot of calls like that lately.

This is embarrassing to admit but this is pretty much my bread butter. A service change two or three times a year and the rest of the time: dimmer switches, receptacles, light fixtures, GFCI replacements.

 

[Coppersmith]

This is embarrassing to admit but this is pretty much my bread butter. A service change two or three times a year and the rest of the time: dimmer switches, receptacles, light fixtures, GFCI replacements.

Sounds like all valid electrical work to me.

 

[AC\DC]

This is embarrassing to admit but this is pretty much my bread butter. A service change two or three times a year and the rest of the time: dimmer switches, receptacles, light fixtures, GFCI replacements.

That’s about half my workload. It’s hard to charge a decent hourly rate on these. They will look at you and Laugh and go hire a handyman. Yes you do come back occasionally to fix a handyman’s mess up but 75% of the time it works.

I spoke to our local CCB agent and he wants me to turn any person I see in for doing electricalwork.

Plus not to mention the general contractors and plumbers that touch crap they shouldn’t be.

I don’t wanna be known as that guy but every day I feel more and more inclined to do it.

 

[Coppersmith]

That’s about half my workload. It’s hard to charge a decent hourly rate on these.

Those are about half my work as well, but I almost always quote my full rate, take it or leave it, and I get plenty of takers. The only exception is ceiling fans. For some reason people think it should cost $25 to hang a ceiling fan. I lower my rate to get ceiling fan business, but I can't lower it enough to get much of it.

 

[jeff48356]

Those are about half my work as well, but I almost always quote my full rate, take it or leave it, and I get plenty of takers. The only exception is ceiling fans. For some reason people think it should cost $25 to hang a ceiling fan. I lower my rate to get ceiling fan business, but I can't lower it enough to get much of it.

I've noticed pretty much the same thing too! Most people (especially women) are completely ignorant of all the work involved in installing a ceiling fan. They don't understand that you can't simply hang a ceiling fan over an existing light fixture box. It makes it even more difficult to convince them of such if replacing an existing fan that's already installed on a box that it shouldn't be. So to replace that box with a proper one, it involves going up into the attic, digging and sifting through insulation, breathing in loads of dust, tight workspaces, sweltering heat (unless done in early morning) -- ON TOP of actually doing the work. Even more difficult is when the ceiling box is hung by a metal bar between two joists that must be ground off with a grinder in order to install a new fan-brace box. And then there's the issue with the wiring. The cable leading down to the switch will always be 14-2, so that would need to be replaced with 14-3. And then the switch box would need to be removed and replaced with a 2-gang, then rewired to accommodate two devices -- light switch and fan speed control. Then of course, the assembly and installation of the fan onto the new proper box.

I've done a few of these this summer, and the entire process takes between 2 and 3 hours. I'm supposed to do all that for only $25?

 

[Fred B]

Its near impossible to get the rate some of you mention getting here, there is no licence requirements other than limited city jurisdictions, so GC's or "handymen" that have no interest in being educated in electrical systems or those "stupid" codes will underprice everytime for these little jobs. They'll even attempt to do the larger jobs, that's where sometimes I'll get some work away from that "type" when it gets all fowled up and they can't figure out what went wrong. In the end for these it would have been "cheaper", not to mention sometimes safer, to hire a professional from the start than trying to get it straightened out afterward. But I don't see this changing anytime soon around here.

 

[electrofelon]

Its near impossible to get the rate some of you mention getting here, there is no licence requirements other than limited city jurisdictions, so GC's or "handymen" that have no interest in being educated in electrical systems or those "stupid" codes will underprice everytime for these little jobs. They'll even attempt to do the larger jobs, that's where sometimes I'll get some work away from that "type" when it gets all fowled up and they can't figure out what went wrong. In the end for these it would have been "cheaper", not to mention sometimes safer, to hire a professional from the start than trying to get it straightened out afterward. But I don't see this changing anytime soon around here.

Fred, you are not that far from me. While I certainly agree rates here are rather low due to the lack of licensing and rural nature of the area, I still think it is not unreasonable at all to get, say, something like minimum half day charge/$300. I dont do much service work but that is what I say the few times I get and accept a small job. I think people just really underestimate how much people want these things done, and especially if they are calling you from a recommendation, they trust you and dont care how much it costs (within reason). They have probably already called several people, and/or dont know anyone else. I doubt the appliance repair guy is going to show up for anything less that $200 minimum..

 

[Fred B]

Fred, you are not that far from me. While I certainly agree rates here are rather low due to the lack of licensing and rural nature of the area, I still think it is not unreasonable at all to get, say, something like minimum half day charge/$300. I dont do much service work but that is what I say the few times I get and accept a small job. I think people just really underestimate how much people want these things done, and especially if they are calling you from a recommendation, they trust you and dont care how much it costs (within reason). They have probably already called several people, and/or dont know anyone else. I doubt the appliance repair guy is going to show up for anything less that $200 minimum..

I have to agree, when I get calls from recommendation, they have already done some due diligence in checking on what it takes to get it done and then no argument over pricing. Made connection with a few GC's that will call me in when they have projects requiring electrical, they trust me and my work. But as to the number who want these small things done, I'm not sure, when I first went out on my own I had got listed with like "Angie's list", and would easily field 20-30 of these a week, this maybe less now, but most were just "How much to do x?", and if I come down to the price they thought was "reasonable" and were willing to pay I would be loosing money by time the lead fee was counted, not to even add in all the other overhead.
As far as they appliance guy customers seem to see it differently, it seems people just don't get that electrical service work requires skill even to "just install a light or switch".

 

[kwired]

Actually I think installing/changing devices is one of the more challenging skilled things we do. Everyone thinks its idiot work and anyone can do it. Cant tell you how many times homeowners have wanted to put the devices in "to save money and because its easy". If you do a crappy job, sure its quick and easy, but to get them straight, even, supported properly, aligned properly, and the plate to cover considering less than perfect drywall and out of level boxes, it takes time and skill, especially on 4 gang boxes. Its not unreasonable for it to take me a half hour to device and plate a 4 gang switch box. My standard are quite high.

I been called many times when the DIY, handyman, "maintenance man", etc. tried to replace devices then messed up the three way/four way switching, didn't know they needed to break the tab off the receptacle or make pigtails to replace a where there was a multiwire circuit, or they knew enough to know that they needed to change to a GFCI but then didn't get it right or something was not so typical and it didn't work when they were finished.

 

[kwired]

Hey, if you can get jobs like that, have it at it.

I personally don't know anyone that would pay that for a single receptacle opening... and I still get scoffed at for my price.

I'm only 33 years old and people look at me like I'm hustling, even though I was in the field 10+ years before I ever got licensed and have been for almost 5 years now and have a vocational education. So I gotta have some math behind my numbers. Plus, I'm an advocate of transparency.

I also gotta stay competitive.

I was the same way when I was young contractor, still am pretty lenient in price in some situations. If I didn't need to go out of my way much to take a look at some call and only spend 10 minutes there, I might ask for a low price. If I had to drive an hour and not have any other stops along that drive to make any $$ from, then they are getting at least one hour of usual labor minimum.

You might need to be lesser priced than much of your competition when first starting out, especially if you have low overhead which allows you to afford the rates you do charge. That low price will get you more clients, and if you are good will get you even more. When you get to the point where you can't keep up with demands, it begins to cost you. You will then either work yourself to death trying to keep up, or will hire some help. Help won't necessarily be able to perform to same standards you can, they will come with additional cost as well like insurance, payroll taxes, etc, and on top of that you will need more tools, equipment, vehicles, etc. that all drives the overhead up eventually making it so that you must raise your prices if you want to stay in the black on your finances.

I had a underground contractor (horizontal boring is his main thing) talking to me once about this kind of thing. He had bored something for a residential client that maybe only took half hour to an hour on site. Don't know what he charged them, he currently charges me $750 to cross typical rural public road, and that is pulling whatever line I provided in when finished. Anyway he said customer complained about the price and said you were only here for an hour.

His response is he showed up with ~ $1million worth of equipment between trucks, trailers, and excavating equipment, he didn't destroy the lawn other than a little bit at start and end points of the run, he successfully installed the line he came to install. He could have just brought a backhoe, tore everything up in the process and taken most the day to do it and still charged a similar amount.

 

[electrofelon]

I was the same way when I was young contractor, still am pretty lenient in price in some situations. If I didn't need to go out of my way much to take a look at some call and only spend 10 minutes there, I might ask for a low price. If I had to drive an hour and not have any other stops along that drive to make any $$ from, then they are getting at least one hour of usual labor minimum.

You might need to be lesser priced than much of your competition when first starting out, especially if you have low overhead which allows you to afford the rates you do charge. That low price will get you more clients, and if you are good will get you even more. When you get to the point where you can't keep up with demands, it begins to cost you. You will then either work yourself to death trying to keep up, or will hire some help. Help won't necessarily be able to perform to same standards you can, they will come with additional cost as well like insurance, payroll taxes, etc, and on top of that you will need more tools, equipment, vehicles, etc. that all drives the overhead up eventually making it so that you must raise your prices if you want to stay in the black on your finances.

I had a underground contractor (horizontal boring is his main thing) talking to me once about this kind of thing. He had bored something for a residential client that maybe only took half hour to an hour on site. Don't know what he charged them, he currently charges me $750 to cross typical rural public road, and that is pulling whatever line I provided in when finished. Anyway he said customer complained about the price and said you were only here for an hour.

His response is he showed up with ~ $1million worth of equipment between trucks, trailers, and excavating equipment, he didn't destroy the lawn other than a little bit at start and end points of the run, he successfully installed the line he came to install. He could have just brought a backhoe, tore everything up in the process and taken most the day to do it and still charged a similar amount.

Yeah similar thing with concrete pumping. I have had a pumper at my house 4 times. IIRC about $700-$800 for a few hours on site. Of course that rig is got to be nearly a million.

 

[kwired]

I charge more than any of the amounts I've seen above and I'm constantly busy. There are a bunch of contractors in my area that charge more than me. I know this because I have seen their quotes. And they are busy. I once spoke with a Mr. Sparky tech and he told me they set their pricing at 30% higher than highest priced electricians in the market, and they are busy.

@Jerramundi is framing the debate like it's immoral or illegal to charge a higher rate than some people are willing to pay. This is just not true. As long as your potential client is fully aware of your price or rate ahead of doing the job, you are doing nothing wrong. It's up to the potential client to compare price, experience, licensing, insurance, reviews, and all other due diligence factors to select the contractor that best fits their needs. Upon hearing your price, some (or many) potential clients will say "no, you are too expensive". That's OK. You only want to work for the people who are willing to pay what you ask for.

From a pure economics stand point, a one-man-show contractor should charge as much as the market will bear because they are selling a limited resource, their labor hours. Your minimum charge must be the sum of all your operating costs plus a profit amount divided by the number hours you can bill. If you can't get that, you can't stay in business. But there is no maximum charge.

Economic theory says if you are not getting enough clients, you can lower your price, but you can also look for more clients (or different clients) and keep your price the same. And if you are getting more clients than you can service, you should raise your price and continue raising your price until you are no longer filling your schedule with jobs.

Though the residential markets can be cutthroat in some situations some customers, especially in the commercial and industrial markets, see good workmanship, fast response when service is needed or getting it fixed the first time as something worth paying a little more for than trying to find the lowest price for those services and not knowing what kind of service you may get.

Gets complicated in actual application though. Bigger contractors might be able to send someone out immediately when small guy like me might need to consider whether I need to drop what I am doing for an already loyal client to satisfy another client, and that decision varies every time because of current circumstances at that time. Big contractor likely has someone somewhere that they can pull from what they are doing to go look at this service call, but may or may not be the best person to troubleshoot that situation either, which can lead to bad decisions by that technician on how to solve the problem, and may end up in a call back because of that.

Have a well driller in my area that is one of larger well drillers in the state with multiple locations. They particularly specialize in larger wells for irrigation as well as municipal wells. They are more expensive for domestic wells, but some get them anyway because of their reliability and generally fast response for service related calls, they have the equipment and manpower to be that way.

 

[Coppersmith]

Anyway he said customer complained about the price and said you were only here for an hour.

I used to hear all sorts of similar complaints from clients which is why I switched from time and materials rates to flat rates. Since I now give the client a fixed price before I start, they are not surprised when I present the bill. The price sensitive people don't hire me which is fine. There are plenty of people that can pay that do. This makes my job much less stressful.