Have Backstabs Improved?

[electricalperson]

i never backstab. i was taught that way and thats how i teach now

 

[ohm]

Why would the stabs melt in the first place?
Something a bit more is invovled for a bolted short to occur.




So use #14 and save even more.

Well if there is a string of daisy-chained back stabbed receptacles and someone plugs in an appliance with a dead L-N short every receptacle will be a prime candidate for series arc faulting because they all got stressed.

And, because almost every outlet in a new home must now be on AFCI, I just find it less expensive to do everything in #12 to reduce home runs & labor. We can't even do MWBC very much anymore.

 

[ohm]

Well if there is a string of daisy-chained back stabbed receptacles and someone plugs in an appliance with a dead L-N short every receptacle will be a prime candidate for series arc faulting because they all got stressed.

And, because almost every outlet in a new home must now be on AFCI, I just find it less expensive to do everything in #12 to reduce home runs & labor. We can't even do MWBC very much anymore.

I should have said the short would have to be on the end of the daisy chain in order to stress all the others.

 

[steelersman]

Backstab or hook?

first of all I've never seen any union guys wire residential. So that would pretty much eliminate them backstabbing as you can't backstab #12 which is the lowest generally speaking size wire that they would be using. Think about it.

 

[steelersman]

Well if there is a string of daisy-chained back stabbed receptacles and someone plugs in an appliance with a dead L-N short every receptacle will be a prime candidate for series arc faulting because they all got stressed.

And, because almost every outlet in a new home must now be on AFCI, I just find it less expensive to do everything in #12 to reduce home runs & labor. We can't even do MWBC very much anymore.

why does everyone always act like 08 code is what's is what's in effect accross the country? In VA it hasn't been adopted yet. And I'm sure in many other states also.

 

[Mule]

I don't get it :-?

What's with the cast of Hee-Haw?

The Hew Haw cast would always do a big Saa-lute so someone every show..

 

[Mule]

We dont wire houses, but do extensions,additions and remodels. 98% of the time we always use mid grade Spec outlets with back pressure plate connections which I really like. I always tell the customers that we install a recept that will last, not the .44 cent models.

Years ago while doing alot of resi, we pigtailed with #14 THHN onto the #12 circuit and did backstabs on general lighting recepts and then did hook connections in kitchens, bath's, and the garage. I dont know if that was code compliant or not, but that's the way we did it.

 

[wirebender]

Years ago while doing alot of resi, we pigtailed with #14 THHN onto the #12 circuit and did backstabs on general lighting recepts and then did hook connections in kitchens, bath's, and the garage. I dont know if that was code compliant or not, but that's the way we did it.

Not compliant.

210.19(A)(4)exc.1(c) 2008NEC

(c) Individual outlets, other than receptacle outlets,
with taps not over 450 mm (18 in.) long.

 

[Mule]

Not compliant.

210.19(A)(4)exc.1(c) 2008NEC

(c) Individual outlets, other than receptacle outlets,
with taps not over 450 mm (18 in.) long.

Had my doubts....

 

[ohm]

why does everyone always act like 08 code is what's is what's in effect accross the country? In VA it hasn't been adopted yet. And I'm sure in many other states also.

True all jurisdictions haven't adopted the 08 Code but it's a safe assumption that they will, in the future. The tamper resistant receptacles are up in the $1.29 range and of much better quality than the orange box $.33 stuff, maybe that will cure the melted receptacle problem.

TR withstanding, I don't think I'll do the backstabbing trick. I'd rather hook or loop a $.33 recp than push into a $1 backstab...but we all have our opinions.

 

[bikeindy]

True all jurisdictions haven't adopted the 08 Code but it's a safe assumption that they will, in the future. The tamper resistant receptacles are up in the $1.29 range and of much better quality than the orange box $.33 stuff, maybe that will cure the melted receptacle problem.

TR withstanding, I don't think I'll do the backstabbing trick. I'd rather hook or loop a $.33 recp than push into a $1 backstab...but we all have our opinions.

The reason for receptacles melting is not the quality of the device and the TR's are basicly the same quality as before just with a "safety" function.

And while Indiana is on the '05 NEC we don't have to install AFCI's though many contractors do.

 

[celtic]

...I just find it less expensive to do everything in #12 to reduce home runs & labor.

How's that?
Is there some local code that places a maximum number of devices on a given general lighting circuit in a dwelling unit in your area?

 

[celtic]

first of all I've never seen any union guys wire residential. So that would pretty much eliminate them backstabbing as you can't backstab #12 which is the lowest generally speaking size wire that they would be using. Think about it.

I think you haven't seen it all.

 

[480sparky]

How's that?...

Fewer HRs.

 

[celtic]

Fewer HRs.

How so?...............

 

[iwire]

I just find it less expensive to do everything in #12 to reduce home runs & labor.

How's that?

Fewer HRs.

Well that clears it right up. :grin:

 

[steelersman]

I think you haven't seen it all.

Well I know around here they don't.

 

[iwire]

Well I know around here they don't.

Exactly.

It all depends where you are.

 

[ohm]

How's that?
Is there some local code that places a maximum number of devices on a given general lighting circuit in a dwelling unit in your area?

Our county limits us to 10 outlets (receptacles or lights) on #14 and 12 on #12 AND everything in the 08 Code , except the communication grounding bus near the meter.

 

[ohm]

The reason for receptacles melting is not the quality of the device and the TR's are basicly the same quality as before just with a "safety" function.

And while Indiana is on the '05 NEC we don't have to install AFCI's though many contractors do.

I agree it's not the quality it's the design. I just can't understand how they got listed. I was just wishing they improved the design, I hate pushing them back in the hole when they fall out.