Hazardous Classification How to tell

[roger]

There are a lot of folks running around with "Electrical Engineer" on their business card who aren't licensed PE's. It might even be on your diploma. My granddad was an electrical engineer and worked for the Army for 40 years and they didn't seem to mind he wasn't a PE. Now, that can get tricky in certain jurisdictions, like California. In CA, you can't have "Engineer" on your card unless you are licensed in CA. Your mileage may vary on this requirement.

Not reflecting on your granddad but, unfortunately misrepresentation is common.

Roger

 

[roger]

On the edge? For what asking code question like this forum was meant to be but other folks gang on OP are not on the edge? If you dont like that moderator then well

Your problem is you don't understand answers when they are blatantly given to you and it appears as though you are trolling us, which I think is the case.

Roger

 

[codequestion]

Your problem is you don't understand answers when they are blatantly given to you and it appears as though you are trolling us, which I think is the case.

Roger

Yea I got it i am going to write official complaint letter to Mr.Holts see how you treat folks who try to understand code. My problem is you assume I am electrician you ask who I am and that has nothing to do with answering my question. Sure right i dont understanf things you are asking or answering has nothing to do with my questions.

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[roger]

Yea I got it i am going to write official complaint letter to Mr.Holts see how you treat folks who try to understand code. My problem is you assume I am electrician you ask who I am and that has nothing to do with answering my question. Sure right i dont understanf things you are asking or answering has nothing to do with my questions.

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Very good.

Roger

 

[gadfly56]

Not reflecting on your granddad but, unfortunately misrepresentation is common.

Roger

It is not a misrepresentation. If you're an engineer and do electrical work, you're an electrical engineer. Speaking as a PE it's elitist and wrong-headed to claim someone isn't an engineer for lack of "PE" after their name. There are restrictions on how you may present your work from a legal perspective but this is not like being a doctor where you aren't until you're licensed.

 

[jumper]

It is not a misrepresentation. If you're an engineer and do electrical work, you're an electrical engineer. Speaking as a PE it's elitist and wrong-headed to claim someone isn't an engineer for lack of "PE" after their name. There are restrictions on how you may present your work from a legal perspective but this is not like being a doctor where you aren't until you're licensed.

I thought only a licensed PE could stamp drawings.

 

[roger]

It is not a misrepresentation. If you're an engineer and do electrical work, you're an electrical engineer. Speaking as a PE it's elitist and wrong-headed to claim someone isn't an engineer for lack of "PE" after their name. There are restrictions on how you may present your work from a legal perspective but this is not like being a doctor where you aren't until you're licensed.

I understand where you are coming from and have a question. I have been in the trade for 45 years (retired now for sake of conversation) and have designed many installations, at what point can I call myself an EE?

This is not meant to be flippant or to put you on a spot.

Roger

 

[rbalex]

I've had my California PE (E9776) over 40 years and, to be honest, I've rarely seen someone cited for claiming to be an EE or practicing electrical engineering without a license. The Board does seem to go ape over fake Civil/Structural engineering.

With few exceptions, an EIT in California and most other States associated with the NCEES hold an ABET accredited degree. AND it's getting tougher every year to qualify for the EIT without ABET. Even tougher to get the PE without EIT.

I have no problem with a degreed engineer claiming to be an engineer. I DO have a problem with an engineer at any level being offended when they are called out for withholding relevant information about a question they have asked.

 

[codequestion]

EIT = engineer in training certificate after you get your BS degree from electrical engineer. So yes I am engineer in training if that makes you happy and not confused. EIT experience in industry can be 0 years to 50 or 60 years basically no limit. As I recall B.s degree in electrical engineerong did not teach NEC 2014. You learn that yourself.

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[roger]

EIT = engineer in training certificate after you get your BS degree from electrical engineer. So yes I am engineer in training if that makes you happy and not confused. EIT experience in industry can be 0 years to 50 or 60 years basically no limit. As I recall B.s degree in electrical engineerong did not teach NEC 2014. You learn that yourself.

I think most here understand a degree in EEing is not a degree in building design but when you come here asking code experts questions (I don't hesitate to use the clarification here) and then change the parameters and conditions through out a thread you are not being straight forward from the beginning and are basically wasting others time.

Roger

 

[rbalex]

EIT = engineer in training certificate after you get your BS degree from electrical engineer. So yes I am engineer in training if that makes you happy and not confused. EIT experience in industry can be 0 years to 50 or 60 years basically no limit. As I recall B.s degree in electrical engineerong did not teach NEC 2014. You learn that yourself.

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No, It was unlikely you were taught the NEC in college; however, it doesn't mean you can say that those of us can't be qualified beyond what we were taught in college either.

 

[codequestion]

No, It was unlikely you were taught the NEC in college; however, it doesn't mean you can say that those of us can't be qualified beyond what we were taught in college either.

Oh gosh....I am sure you and I mean you as in rbalex learned the code right after college and maybe not thru 40 years of experience reading code again and again. Oh do enlighten me on how you learned code before 40 years of experience.

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[gadfly56]

I understand where you are coming from and have a question. I have been in the trade for 45 years (retired now for sake of conversation) and have designed many installations, at what point can I call myself an EE?

This is not meant to be flippant or to put you on a spot.

Roger

Without being familiar with your particulars I couldn't say, but depending on what your design experience was I wouldn't have a problem if you self-identified as an engineer. Here's what NJ says:

The terms "practice of engineering" or "professional engineering" within the meaning and
intent of this chapter shall mean any service or creative work the adequate performance of which
requires engineering education, training, and experience and the application of special knowledge of
the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences to such services or creative work as
consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning and design of engineering works and systems,
planning the use of land and water, engineering studies, and the administration of construction for
the purpose of determining compliance with drawings and specifications; any of which embraces
such services or work, either public or private, in connection with any engineering project including:
utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, work systems, projects,
telecommunications, or equipment of a mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic or thermal
nature, insofar as they involve safeguarding life, health or property, and including such other
professional services as may be necessary to the planning, progress and completion of any
engineering services. The design of buildings by professional engineers shall be consistent with
section 7 of the "Building Design Services Act," P.L.1989, c.277 (C.45:4B-7).


If you've done the above, I'd say you're an engineer.

Actually, in NJ depending on the level of design work you've done, you could have gotten your PE license without taking a single engineering course. It just required 20 years (IIRC), a ton of documentation and passing the test. Now you have to have a 4-year degree in engineering or engineering technology plus 15 years. But that's all about being a PE; "mustang" engineers are engineers all the same.

 

[roger]

Without being familiar with your particulars I couldn't say, but depending on what your design experience was I wouldn't have a problem if you self-identified as an engineer. Here's what NJ says:

The terms "practice of engineering" or "professional engineering" within the meaning and
intent of this chapter shall mean any service or creative work the adequate performance of which
requires engineering education, training, and experience and the application of special knowledge of
the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences to such services or creative work as
consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning and design of engineering works and systems,
planning the use of land and water, engineering studies, and the administration of construction for
the purpose of determining compliance with drawings and specifications; any of which embraces
such services or work, either public or private, in connection with any engineering project including:
utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, work systems, projects,
telecommunications, or equipment of a mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic or thermal
nature, insofar as they involve safeguarding life, health or property, and including such other
professional services as may be necessary to the planning, progress and completion of any
engineering services. The design of buildings by professional engineers shall be consistent with
section 7 of the "Building Design Services Act," P.L.1989, c.277 (C.45:4B-7).


If you've done the above, I'd say you're an engineer.

Actually, in NJ depending on the level of design work you've done, you could have gotten your PE license without taking a single engineering course. It just required 20 years (IIRC), a ton of documentation and passing the test. Now you have to have a 4-year degree in engineering or engineering technology plus 15 years. But that's all about being a PE; "mustang" engineers are engineers all the same.

Thank you gadfly.

Roger

 

[gadfly56]

I thought only a licensed PE could stamp drawings.

In all jurisdictions I am aware of, yes, that is true. But what do you call the five guys who did the equipment layouts, code reviews, calculations and drawings that were signed by the PE?

 

[rbalex]

Oh gosh....I am sure you and I mean you as in rbalex learned the code right after college and maybe not thru 40 years of experience reading code again and again. Oh do enlighten me on how you learned code before 40 years of experience.

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I've told you before. "memorize" and commit to heart the last sentence of Section 90.1(A). No, I didn't know everything right out of school, but I was expected to learn it and, when I asked questions, I didn't insult the teachers by questioning their qualification and experience as my first response.

 

[codequestion]

In all jurisdictions I am aware of, yes, that is true. But what do you call the five guys who did the equipment layouts, code reviews, calculations and drawings that were signed by the PE?

Trash. PE prolly stamped them for $ without reviewing or being PE in the subject expert.

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[codequestion]

I've told you before. "memorize" and commit to heart the last sentence of Section 90.1(A). No, I didn't know everything right out of school, but I was expected to learn it and, when I asked questions, I didn't insult the teachers by questioning their qualification and experience as my first response.

I apologize if i offended you must be truly great right out of college. Kudos to you.
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[jumper]

In all jurisdictions I am aware of, yes, that is true. But what do you call the five guys who did the equipment layouts, code reviews, calculations and drawings that were signed by the PE?

Engineers of course, if they have BSEEs, but there is a slight presumption that when someone says they are an EE here, it kinda implies being a PE in electrical IMO.

Or at least that is what I infer. Bad assumption on my part I suppose.

 

[gadfly56]

Trash. PE prolly stamped them for $ without reviewing or being PE in the subject expert.

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You clearly have no experience in an MEP firm. There is certainly no cause for such gratuitous insults. My colleague is an EIT, but he's every bit an engineer. Until recently all work out of all our offices had to be signed and sealed by our principal. I can assure you his review was quite thorough.