Help needed/ have you ever had this happen?

[growler]

The problem is the wires, where they connect, are higher than the weatherhead. This is allowing the water to flow in. The crimps are not weathertight.

c2500

Read 230.54 (C). The service head or gooseneck shall be located above the point of attachment.

After looking at the photo I can tell that your point of attachment is higher than the weather head ( It's hard to tell how far above ).

The great thing about water is that it's predicatable and will not flow uphill. If the weatherhead were about 2 feet higher you wouldn't have a problem.

 

[ibew501ed]

No.
NEC allows this.

It is the POCO's decision to not allow it.

does the NEC allow the GEC to enter the meter like that (no connector)?

 

[c2500]

I met an engineer just a minute ago. He agrees that their hook up as not right and I have called in a trouble ticket.

c2500

 

[jumper]

does the NEC allow the GEC to enter the meter like that (no connector)?

Good question. I have used that 1/4" hole in panels and I have never been called on it.

 

[marti smith]

c2500,

Is there a mast clamp or other means of stress relief for the drop? It is hard to tell from the pictures, but doesn't mean it's not there. My thought was that if there isn't any stress relief, any imposed drip loop would stretch out over time. The requirement here is point-of-attatchment is within 18" of the weatherhead and we usually leave 2' of conductor. This combination makes for an automatic drip loop as the POCO rarely cuts our wires.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Read 230.54 (C). The service head or gooseneck shall be located above the point of attachment.

There's a problem with using 230.54(C), IMO, and that is the use of the word "impracticable" in the exception. One AHJ's impracticable may not be the same as another AHJ's impracticable.

The opening post describes a service rebuild and reconnection that, to me, means the AHJ inspected. So that helps to indicate c5000's local interpretation of "impracticable".

In my area, the multiple AHJ's are pretty reluctant to use the 230.54(C) Exception, and as a result, on the front end, doing the service rebuild, repair, or new install, I figure out how to get the Point Of Attachment below the weatherhead.

 

[ty]

does the NEC allow the GEC to enter the meter like that (no connector)?

look at 312.5 and let me know.

 

[fondini]

Sure would be nice if they would come up with a standard. You guys deal with Toledo ED.? We have Worst Energy Here

yep...toledo edison terrible to deal with[1st energy company] the line man are always good guys, its the customer service that sucks. They have 10 working days to hook up after application is made.Then of course a different crew comes to set the meter. pita

 

[IMM_Doctor]

What the heck is a gooseneck?

What the heck is a gooseneck?

There's a problem with using 230.54(C), IMO, and that is the use of the word "impracticable" in the exception. One AHJ's impracticable may not be the same as another AHJ's impracticable.

The opening post describes a service rebuild and reconnection that, to me, means the AHJ inspected. So that helps to indicate c5000's local interpretation of "impracticable".

In my area, the multiple AHJ's are pretty reluctant to use the 230.54(C) Exception, and as a result, on the front end, doing the service rebuild, repair, or new install, I figure out how to get the Point Of Attachment below the weatherhead.

I searched my NFPA 70 NEC 2008 for "gooseneck". The word first appears in 230.51(A).

"Gooseneck" does NOT appear in Article 100 definitions.

There has been a trend in recent code cycles to use internationally recognized nomenclature, ie... luminaires. Or metric based conduit fill and conductor cross sectional measurment.

How is it that "gooseneck" is still a viable term? What is it?

 

[e57]

Did you only leave that much conductor - or did they cut them short. I alway leave 3' - no excuses for not having enough.

 

[Rich R]

Yeah but even if he left 8' the crimps would still be higher than the weather head. Since the point of attachment is so much higher than weather head he is getting an effect kind of like a sink drain trap because the water is flowing inside the jacket of conductors. As long as those crimps are higher than the weather head it wouldn't matter if the drip loop was touching the gound

Only way they can fix that is lengthen the PoCo conductors so the crimps are lower or to raise the weather head

 

[jaylectricity]

I searched my NFPA 70 NEC 2008 for "gooseneck". The word first appears in 230.51(A).

"Gooseneck" does NOT appear in Article 100 definitions.

There has been a trend in recent code cycles to use internationally recognized nomenclature, ie... luminaires. Or metric based conduit fill and conductor cross sectional measurment.

How is it that "gooseneck" is still a viable term? What is it?

230.54 describes it. And here's a picture of a goose neck:

The goose should probably be looking down a little bit more to give you a better mental image, but I think you can get the point.

 

[al hildenbrand]

How is it that "gooseneck" is still a viable term? What is it?

If you can lay your hands on a copy of the 2008 NEC Handbook, take a look at Exhibit 230.25 in the explanatory text that follows 230.54(G). The term is applied to service entrance cable bent in a shepard's crook up at the end by the Point Of Attachment. A special fitting is used so the cable keeps the shape.

 

[jaylectricity]

The term is applied to service entrance cable bent in a shepard's crook up at the end by the Point Of Attachment.

From geese to sheep, we may be building an ark-fault soon.:grin:

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . Ark-fault . . .

. . . . .

 

[cowboyjwc]

In photo #1 it appears the Drip loop is not very big. It looks to me that water could be running down the conductor and then into the Meter Can.

That's what I noticed too.

Oh and don't believe that water cannot run up hill.

 

[c2500]

Did you only leave that much conductor - or did they cut them short. I alway leave 3' - no excuses for not having enough.

There was several feet of wire left for the POCO to hook up. Here, the POCO will do everything above the meter can. I normally do that part so the POCO can hookup and leave. I had plenty of wire. They cut it shorter. If this was commercial, they would expect me to have run the stack and have it ready to hookup.

c2500

 

[c2500]

The POCO aka Duke Energy, came out yesterday afternoon. The guy was very nice, and said he had never seen water leaking from inside the insulation. I believe him. Anyway, he modified the drip loop, aimed the wire connection down, so I doubt any water will get in. He also saw water on the strands of the wire that was in the meter can lug. I will be able to verify the problem is solved on Thursday, assuming the forecast holds.

For the record, the AHJ approved all of my work. I legally could not have the POCO rehook the wires without an inspection. This was a direct replacement for the previous service. The previous service was ruined by the loss of the cap over the weatherhead. It would have been very difficult to relocate the attachment point. My work resulted in the weatherhead being higher than the one I replaced. Please remember, this was actually made hot on a Saturday night at 9:30 PM. Flashlights were the source of light. I always pull permits and have inspections. I am not trying to sound defensive, I just want everyone to know that I follow the rules to the best of my abilities. I also appreciate the input.

c2500

 

[c2500]

Good question. I have used that 1/4" hole in panels and I have never been called on it.

I have never been called for it either. Thats why that hole is there.

c2500

 

[PetrosA]

Man, I wish our POCO let us use meter sockets with that much room on the sides. Our sockets for overhead services are so narrow that you have to guesstimate how much 4/0 to leave, and where to start stripping it because it's impossible to test fit before it's cut to length.