Here's a New One on Me

[480sparky]

Just when I thought I had seen and heard it all in this business.

Started working with a small builder... one who does kitchen/bath remodels, basement finishes and small additions. He was unhappy with his last electrician. Did a couple small jobs for him at first, then a service call.

Service call was in a basement finish job he had just completed. I was not the electrician for that job. But the service call was a simple replacement of a lo-voltage relay in a lighting control system.

Now, the builder tells me the electrician that did that basement job never pulled a permit for the electrical work, so the city is holding back on issuing a CofO for the whole job.

So what does the builder ask? He wants me to pull the permit!

 

[iwire]

He wants me to pull the permit!

I don't see a problem as long as your up front with the inspections department. I would not try to do it on the sly.

We have taken over jobs from other ECs for all sorts of different reasons.

 

[haskindm]

Just make sure that the reason that the previous electrician has not pulled the permit is because he wasn't getting paid. Many GC's go from EC to EC leaving a trail of unpaid bills behind them. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and do not want to go back!

 

[LarryFine]

Also, make sure you have a contract that covers your time for any inspection or work you do to either assure compliance of, or make compliant, any and all work covered by the permit, no matter who did it.

 

[ITO]

As a matter of principle I try to never take over somebody else?s job, permit or contract. You just never know what kind of ratty work is behind them walls..., and you are on the hook for it if you take it over.

Sure you can tell the inspector or whoever else will listen that it was not you job, but if somebody else?s shoddy work cause property damage or injury, its your name on the permit.

Haskindm also hit the nail on the head, the other guy may not have finished his work for a reason.

 

[480sparky]

I don't think payment was the issue. I think it was the builder just wasn't happy with the work.

And that's what makes me leery of it. I don't know the people who did it, so who knows what kind of quality is there. If I get the permit, I'm the 'electician of record.' God forbid, but if something happens, I'm the one that's gonna have to pony up.

 

[raider1]

I think it was the builder just wasn't happy with the work.

That would sent up all kind of red flags for me as well. I wouldn't put my name on anybody elses work, especially if I didn't know the electrical contractor and the GC isn't happy with their work.

Chris

 

[ceknight]

So what does the builder ask? He wants me to pull the permit!

I'd have no problem with pulling the permit, after I was hired to rewire everything under the scope of that permit.

 

[mdshunk]

I've been in that position before, and I have pulled permits after the fact for work done on the sly like that. I megger every circuit and visually examine the connections in every box involved. I feel pretty good about certifying the work after that.

 

[cowboyjwc]

As an inspector, if the basement is already finished as you said, I'm going to make you pull of the bottom 4' of drywall so that we can see the fastener and the electrical work and insulation, etc.

So my advice would be that you do that before you even pull the permit, so that you can see what you're getting into. If the GC won't go for that then go with your gut feelings.

 

[augie47]

pull permit

pull permit

There are legimate reasons this happens and I would make sure what you are doing is documented every way possible..by contract, by notes on the permit, etc. Then I would do all I could to verify the existing work is safe, and document that (having it inspected is one step toward that process). Similar to what cowboyjwc states, in our area, if there was no rough-in, we require enough wiring be exposed to confirm that proper wiring methods were used.
In these situations, the inspector can be a good assset.

 

[growler]

Now, the builder tells me the electrician that did that basement job never pulled a permit for the electrical work, so the city is holding back on issuing a CofO for the whole job.

So what does the builder ask? He wants me to pull the permit!

I would just have the GC call the electrician that did the work originally and tell him to get a permit for the work or he is going to report him for doing un-permitted work.

If he has to report the guy then the permit cost about three times as much, the electrician may face disiplinary action and the inspectors tend to go harder o those that didn't call for a rough inspection.

My bet is that the electrician isn't an electrician and can't pull a permit. I leave this sort of thing alone until I find out what's really going on. Then if the other guy can't pull a permit, charge the hell out of the GC for your services and teach him a lesson about useing an unlicensed contractor.( he's the one that's over a barrel ).

Edit: You have to ask yourself one question. If the GC didn't like this guy's work why did he go ahead and put up sheet rock without a rough electrical inspection. It just doesn't sound right.

 

[Cavie]

We will accept a licenced engineers letter of responcibility for the covered up work. Tell the GC to get such a letter and than pull the permit and go from there.

 

[celtic]

J
Started working with a small builder... one who does kitchen/bath remodels, basement finishes and small additions.

Now, the builder tells me the electrician that did that basement job never pulled a permit for the electrical work, so the city is holding back on issuing a CofO for the whole job.

So what does the builder ask? He wants me to pull the permit!

You might want to start asking the GC questions BEFORE you agree to ANY more work from him.

#1 on my short list would be:
Why did the job progress to this point when it's common knowledge that an electrical permit was required?


....Assuming that your area requires electrical permits for even "minor" items like replacing a GFI in bath remodel....

 

[cschmid]

I have been in the same area you are now and before I agreed to pull the permit I had to go inspect the job and I also wanted a service call fee for the inspection. Then I called the inspector and talked to him about the situation and see if he has had problems in the past with the GC and the other EC. Then make the decision because I have found that GC's can be shady and demanding wanting to do all kinds of stuff to get the cash instead of letting the EC in on the deal. over worked one and two man shops can get in over their head and that maybe all it is or GC wants them to sign for work he did. Check it out and be careful.....

 

[MAK]

I agree with the premise that something is not legit with the G.C. The fact that the G.C. closed the walls up and finished the space with out an inspection has got to have you really wondering if this is the kind of company you want to do business with particularly when the G.C. had taken issue with the quality of the work performed by the "electrician".

 

[macmikeman]

This sounds to me like typical GC balderdash.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

The first question I'd ask - "Can I have the EC's name who performed the work?" If he doesn't offer it, I'd head for the hills. If he does, I'd dig in to the guys reputation and go from there.

I like Cavie's recommendation of getting an EE's letter signing a letter of responsibility (but if I was the EE I'd be asking a lot of questions as well). Then I'd provide the GC with an estimate of what it's going to take me to pull the permit and look over the work - it ain't coming for just the cost of the permit. I ain't doing this for the "fun of it".

480 - please let us know what you decide to do, and if you do take it, how you handled it all.

 

[ptonsparky]

I agree, don't like that it was covered by the GC. We have picked up where others have quit, but this one smells bad. Rip it out to where everything is visible. Let the GC worry about costs, he covered it.

 

[brian john]

In our area the local inspection departments take a PRACTICAL approach IMO and do not you pull drywall to check for a staple...This IMO is more punishment and serves no useful purpose.

As Marc noted megger each circuit, in addition they require us to test for ground continuity with a earth/ground resistance tester, inspect each and every box, write a detailed letter with test data results. BUT the installed walls do need to meet building inspection requirements first.