Here's a New One on Me

[growler]

What I don't understand about this job is the GC wants the OP to pull and electrical permit. What about all the other permits? And if they were pulled how did the AHJ let it get this far?

I agree with you. Every area that I have worked in you need electrical, HVAC and plumbing before the framing or building inspection. If you don't have all needed inspection then you don't get the go ahead to rock. Here they want even inspect the framing unless you have the electrical inspection passed ( and the others ).

What happens in this area is that the fly-by-night contractor bails and leaves the homeowner holding the bag ( a lot smarter and poorer than he was ). It's the homeowner that will end up paying to have this mess straightened out.

I saw one basement remodel where they did a real good job except for the fact that they didn't put any electrical outlets in. One receptacle for each room, just as the builder left it. Then they tried to sell the house. Surprise, home inspectors are not that blind.

 

[480sparky]

Update

Update

Here's a little more info that I have come across.

Apparently, this job is in an area that is rather lax in their paperwork. Rough-in inspection was done, but no permit had been pulled by the EC. The inspector just said, "Hey, looks good. Come down to the office some day and get a permit."

EC never does, then finishes job and company goes belly-up. So there's no EC on record. Therefore, in order for the HO to legally occupy the finished lower level, 'someone' needs to pull a permit.

Enter po' ol' me.

If I knew anything about the people who did the work, and if I knew they did quality work, I would have to think about it. But I don't know these guys from Adam, so since my arse would be on the line, financially and legally, I just hope the GC will forget it and it will just go away.

 

[growler]

The inspector just said, "Hey, looks good. Come down to the office some day and get a permit."

Someone should buy that inspector a Creedence Clearwater Revival recording " Someday Never Comes".

 

[bradleyelectric]

Dittos. I have been in simalar situations. I have no sympaphy for a GC who closes walls w/o a rough sign off.

Last year I did a chain restaraunt. It was an emergency job. Had to be done right now. My company spent mega-bucks on O.T. to meet the dead line.

We completed the rough-in on time. The G.C. never paid the rough-in bill. It is still in litigation. The only thing we did wrong was install outlets at the wrong heights. We did it per plan, not our fault.

The chain had their in-house people trim out the job. It turns out, this chain has a history of burning E.C.'s in this fashion.

What chain is it?

 

[Bulldog1401]

In our area the local inspection departments take a PRACTICAL approach IMO and do not you pull drywall to check for a staple...This IMO is more punishment and serves no useful purpose. QUOTE]

The threat of the AJH making the GC pull down sheet rock is pretty much the only thing that keeps the GCs from covering me up before inspection. It's not really an issue of being practical, its more an issue of maintaining order.

I hate to admit it but the consequences of covering up my work are a joy to watch, and the GC using the sheet rocker to bully me around the job stops shortly thereafter.

Exactly..some people you have to hit in the wallet to help control their greed....go go go faster faster faster... the insulators will be here tomorrow... the rockers the next day..gotta get it done now..

All just the quest for the next draw. When you show them it is cheaper to do the work in order, and not have to tear it apart for missed inspections, they sometimes learn.

 

[Kessler4130]

I ran into this problem a few months ago, and the inspections department was aware of the situation before I pulled a permit. They made the homeowner get a testing company to megger it.

 

[MAK]

I ran into this problem a few months ago, and the inspections department was aware of the situation before I pulled a permit. They made the homeowner get a testing company to megger it.

I was just wondering what course of action could a H.O. take against an EC for closing the walls up without an inspection? I assume you can sue but couldn't an EC just "disappear" never to be heard from again?

 

[LarryFine]

. . . couldn't an EC just "disappear" never to be heard from again?

Horrors!

 

[growler]

I was just wondering what course of action could a H.O. take against an EC for closing the walls up without an inspection? I assume you can sue but couldn't an EC just "disappear" never to be heard from again?

It happened to Jimmy Hoffa but I think that's a little drastic. I think a complaint to the state licensing board would more appropriate.

I know what you are talking about and that's why each state needs a state license to keep people from disappearing and doing the same shoddy work in other counties. :grin:

 

[cschmid]

I actually think that the states need to do state wide inspections on all trades (GC, EC, PC, ect..). This would make things easier as you could not go from area to area with out your records following you. In MN if you are a EC you are inspected state wide..If you are in any other trade you are only inspected in city limits and if you are a Plumber only if the city is 5000 +... I see some areas that need change to make things really up to code...

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

cscmid, growler - I agree with moving to a state license. I used to live in upstate NY, and the only place you needed a license to do EC work in the whole county I lived in was in to cities contained in that county. Anywhere else, anybody who could pile Romex, staples and some tools in the back end of a station wagon or mini-van could do electrical work. In my 10 years there, I saw some very scary stuff. NY state needs to get past the politics and drive home a state-wide license.

The issue in those situations is the HO needs to be educated that for insurance reasons the work should be inspected - but there was no way this work was being inspected. The HO could have an insurance claim refused if it was proven that the work that caused damage was due to shoddy work - and uninspected. Back there they have independant inspectors who are very good at what they do. I'm not one that says that state has to do the inspections, but the inspectors should be regulated by the state, and dictate that certain training and eductional requirements be met.

In NH they require continuing education, and this can and should be done for inspectors as well.

 

[360Youth]

So what does the builder ask? He wants me to pull the permit!

Not without a written contract that I was NOT liable for any existing installation and that any failed items was T&M to fix. Gut reaction is to say "no" anyway, but it could be a good opportunity for you if you manage bonus points with the GC.

 

[LarryFine]

Not without a written contract that I was NOT liable for any existing installation and that any failed items was T&M to fix. Gut reaction is to say "no" anyway, but it could be a good opportunity for you if you manage bonus points with the GC.

Could also be an opportunity to charge time for inspecting (carefully!) the previous work, especially if anyone wants you to be responsible for it.

 

[360Youth]

Could also be an opportunity to charge time for inspecting (carefully!) the previous work, especially if anyone wants you to be responsible for it.

Zero liability or no deal. Not even sure if that's possible, but those are my terms. Maybe the GC could get the HO to pull electrical permit for inspection and EC could take over from there, but I would still tread carefully.

 

[480sparky]

More info!

More info!

Recently talked with the plumber on this basement finish that did not have an electrical permit.

Seems the builder and EC had a little tiff sometime during the project. My guess is it was after the EC was done, else it would not have been finished. Turns out the EC is still is business, just not doing business with this builder because of their disagreement (I don't know the details, nor do I think I want to know).

But in the end, there was never an electrical permit pulled by the EC for the work. I told the builder he needs to go after them to get the permit, since it is their job, regardless of their differences now.

But what I don't understand is how the job could have gone much past insulation and drywall without an electrical rough inpsection, much less an electrical permit. So at this point, I don't think I still have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The builder called me this evening and asked me to again pull a permit. I just told him I couldn't because I would be taking legal and financial responsibility for a job I did not do and for people I do not know.

The builder says the city is coming after him. I suggested he call them and ask what they (the AHJ) are doing about a licensed EC doing work without a permit.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

This situation is sounding like it would be a living nightmare if you got involved in it. You can't get a straight answer out of the GC - it sounds like someone you never want to do business with.