Here's a New One on Me

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benaround - excellent suggestion. It may be a guy posing as and EC - but someone put that wire in the wall. Hey - wonder if the GC knows how to drive NM staples - hhhmmmmm. Maybe 480's already been talking to him - ;) ;)
 
usseful purpose

usseful purpose

brian john said:
In our area the local inspection departments take a PRACTICAL approach IMO and do not you pull drywall to check for a staple...This IMO is more punishment and serves no useful purpose.

As Marc noted megger each circuit, in addition they require us to test for ground continuity with a earth/ground resistance tester, inspect each and every box, write a detailed letter with test data results. BUT the installed walls do need to meet building inspection requirements first.
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auuming their might be the word "make" (....you pull) left out...... but my point is, if what you say were the case, why not just allow every job to be covered and megger the circuit ? One reaseon we want sheet rock pulled (at least enough to see wiring methods) is the same reason NM is required to be set back and nail plates are required....today's megger test does not prevent tommorrow's screw from hitting the romex, not to mention the possibility of open splices, etc. Allowing PARTIAL removal is IMHO a PRACTICAL approach. To not do so, again in MHO, is dangerous.
 
The threat of the AJH making the GC pull down sheet rock is pretty much the only thing that keeps the GCs from covering me up before inspection. It's not really an issue of being practical, its more an issue of maintaining order.

I hate to admit it but the consequences of covering up my work are a joy to watch, and the GC using the sheet rocker to bully me around the job stops shortly thereafter.
 
Actually the cost of having a third party company come in and inspect your work is more than enough to STOP a GC from drywalling, typical cost for a basement inspection $810.00-$1,520.00. I Do not condone the hanging of drywall, prior to inspection but I do feel making a contractor tear off the drywall a bit over the top.
 
So some of you guys are saying that when the electrical inspector shows up he should just say "well darn it you covered me up...again. Oh well, maybe next time."

the GC hasn't just covered up the electrical, he's covered the framing, plumbing, insulation, etc. It's the GC's job to check the job card prior to cover. If everything that applied wasn't signed off then he should know better.
 
ITO said:
The threat of the AJH making the GC pull down sheet rock is pretty much the only thing that keeps the GCs from covering me up before inspection.
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Same here, it's not like GCs are unaware permits and inspections are required before closing walls and if the GC is really that unaware they should not be a GC.
 
Your Personal Assets are at risk.

Your Personal Assets are at risk.

A HO just called me out to look at a house that his brother was still wiring up as I was inspecting the building. HO wanted to pay me $1800.00 to pull a electrical permit. I called my insurance company, they told me that if the building burns down and they find out that I did'nt do the work that I would be held liable for the damages, additionally, my I.C. will not cover the job or payout a settlement and that my Personal Assests would be a risk!

You might want to check with your agent!
 
iwire said:
Same here, it's not like GCs are unaware permits and inspections are required before closing walls and if the GC is really that unaware they should not be a GC.
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Dittos. I have been in simalar situations. I have no sympaphy for a GC who closes walls w/o a rough sign off.

Last year I did a chain restaraunt. It was an emergency job. Had to be done right now. My company spent mega-bucks on O.T. to meet the dead line.

We completed the rough-in on time. The G.C. never paid the rough-in bill. It is still in litigation. The only thing we did wrong was install outlets at the wrong heights. We did it per plan, not our fault.

The chain had their in-house people trim out the job. It turns out, this chain has a history of burning E.C.'s in this fashion.
 
NOT ONE of you have suggested that the GC might have tried to "bootleg" the entire job.

Finishing a basement is sometimes done without pulling any permits --- the work is well hidden from view from the street, and the GC thinks he is saving some bucks bypassing the permit process.

So maybe he got caught with his pants down, and had to pull a permit after the fact? Now, he can't get the CO without the other required inspections --- like the electrical?

Too often I have been subjected to an impatient GC -- hurry up and wait has been their prevailing attitude. Gotta get the job done NOW they tell me. So we bust our donkeys and then the job just sits there for a week afterwards with nothing going on. I have little sympathy for them and their wishful thinking scheduling in cases like that. (I know, the realreason for their impatience is getting the next draw, then the urgency has passed once the cheque has been tendered). :mad:

I've seen times when an agressive GC will use his own unlicensed handy-jack-legs to do some wiring when they think it won't be inspected. GAWD, what messes they have installed!!

So let the inpectors make `em tear off some drywall, ensure there are no hidden jack-leg splices in the walls, and the wiring methods employed are up to snuff.

Extreme measures like this are the best way to ensure they never get ahead of you again. :grin:
 
Sparky_SF said:
A HO just called me out to look at a house that his brother was still wiring up as I was inspecting the building. HO wanted to pay me $1800.00 to pull a electrical permit. I called my insurance company, they told me that if the building burns down and they find out that I did'nt do the work that I would be held liable for the damages, additionally, my I.C. will not cover the job or payout a settlement and that my Personal Assests would be a risk!

You might want to check with your agent!
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What this HO was asking you to do is illegal so naturally your insurance is not going to cover you and what's more the state can take your license for permitting for others ( unlicensed contractors ) if you are ever to do such a thing. The best thing to do in a case like this is to file a letter of complaint with the inspection department ( un-permitted work in progresss ).

You can legally take over a job that was never permitted or inspected. They don't normally make people tear the house down and haul it to the dump. But you do have to go through the AHJ and see what hoops they want you to jump through. It's not a simple process. Here you would have to remove the bottom 4 ft of rock or hire a licensed engineer to sign off on the job ( not cheap ). The cables get megged and every reading documented all the grounds get checked by you and the inspector. This gives the county an engineer and a contractor to blame if anything goes wrong. It sucks but it is legitimate work. That's why I prefer that the rock gets removed and if I find anything wrong then all the rock gets removed and we start over from the beginning. Never give a price on the job and the clock starts when you start dealing with the paperwork. You just tell the owner up front that it's going to be expensive. Should have hired an electrician to start with or get a homeowner permit.

I like nothing better than seeing a "stop work order " on a job like you were talking about. This gives a real contractor a chance to really stick it to this guy. Before it's over they wish they had hired a real electrician to start with.
 
kbsparky said:
NOT ONE of you have suggested that the GC might have tried to "bootleg" the entire job.

Finishing a basement is sometimes done without pulling any permits --- the work is well hidden from view from the street, and the GC thinks he is saving some bucks bypassing the permit process. :grin:
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General Contractors can be very clever. Here some of them will get a permit for the cheapest thing they can like a bath remodel. They post the permit but never call for any inspections. Finish the work and take down the permit. After six months the permit expires. It's left on the books as an open permit. I have herd that there are hundreds for some contractors. The permits are issued by the cities and counties not the state so there is really no record of how many open permits a contractor has if he is willing to move around a bit. :grin:

Edit: Some areas are getting wise to this and if no inspections are called for in 60 days the permit is void.
 
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Our permits are good for 180 days, but if you void out a permit, what have you accomplished? Now you have a permitted illegal job.

I don't know how many jurisdiction adopt Article 80, but we have provisions that are similar that we adopt. Look at 80.19(F) & (G).
 
cowboyjwc said:
Our permits are good for 180 days, but if you void out a permit, what have you accomplished? Now you have a permitted illegal job.
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They get a new permit fee is what it does. If you have already passed the rough-in you don't need another inspection just another fee. On a normal job one of the inspectors will be at the job site in a 60 period anyway. It's not as if you have to call for an electrical inspection in 60 days, footing inspection will do and then another inspection in the next 60 days.
 
Research what happened?
Call the other EC?
Do your home work?
Write letters explaining things to everyone?
Call the inspector?
Take on the liability?

Who has time to do all this for a job, that the GC considers done, and just wants a permit on the cheap?

Seriously unless you are hurting for work it sound like the type of project where you end up working a lot of un-billable time, in order to bail out a guy who may not be telling you the whole story.
 
growler said:
They get a new permit fee is what it does. If you have already passed the rough-in you don't need another inspection just another fee. On a normal job one of the inspectors will be at the job site in a 60 period anyway. It's not as if you have to call for an electrical inspection in 60 days, footing inspection will do and then another inspection in the next 60 days.
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True and ours work that way too. They expire 180 days from the last inspection, if it's a combo permit.

What I don't understand about this job is the GC wants the OP to pull and electrical permit. What about all the other permits? And if they were pulled how did the AHJ let it get this far?
 
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