home smoke detectors

[dnem]

Placing smoke detectors on it's own dedicated circuit is a waist of time, labor, and material. Also more breakers to crowd in the panel for no reason.

Placing these on it's own breaker i would have to say the same electrician would probably place the doorbell on it's own circuit also????????????

sir or mam we have to add a sub panel your panel is full?????????????

What a waist. Just place the smoke detectors on a lighting circuit with no receptacles.

Problem solved and call it a day.

"Just place the smoke detectors on a lighting circuit with no receptacles."
Yes, agreed, no plugs with the smokes !

 

[iwire]

Yes, agreed, no plugs with the smokes !

Why?

What difference does it make, run it dedicated, include it with lighting, or include it with recptacles.....it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it's an unswitched source of 125 VAC.

 

[wbalsam1]

Why?

What difference does it make, run it dedicated, include it with lighting, or include it with recptacles.....it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it's an unswitched source of 125 VAC.

I agree. In NYS, we used to have to install our new construction single and multiple-station smoke alarms on with a lighting circuit. But since smokes are required to have a battery back-up power source, that rule went away. They can now be on their own individual circuit, or on a lighting or power circuit, or on a circuit combining the two.

 

[dnem]

In Massachusetts you are required to feed the smoke detectors from a general purpose branch circuit that feeds other lighting and such. Dedicated circuit is not allowed nor is there any good reason to wire it that way. Doomsday scenarios mentioned prviously and henceforth excluded.

Mass got that one right.

In Ohio there's talk of adding a CO requirement and the wording would include a stipulation that CO/smoke combos would not be allowed. . The thought is the same as putting a smoke on with a plug. . If the CO circuitry burns up they don't want that to disable the smoke detection for that area. . So therefore it would be required that the smoke and the CO be separate devices.

 

[dnem]

Why?

What difference does it make, run it dedicated, include it with lighting, or include it with recptacles.....it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it's an unswitched source of 125 VAC.

For code compliance it makes no difference.
But for a better installation for your customer, it does.
It can cause a problem to put the smokes on with plugs.

so your mother in law comes over and vacuums your general areas in your house while you are on vacation..trips the hallway circuit and does not reset it..batteries go dead on smoke detectors..You come home and rest CB but now you have no battery backup and you do not know it..Yep sounds like I want my smokes on a hallway circuit...NOT...why would you not use a dedicated circuit for smokes when they are suppose to be interconnected..

 

[iwire]

But for a better installation for your customer, it does.
It can cause a problem to put the smokes on with plugs.

What 'problems'?

Make me understand.

 

[DesignerMan]

Let me have a wack at it

Let me have a wack at it

I know, I know...this is getting beaten to death, but I have to add a little more fuel to the fire.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but here's my take:
Reference NEC2008
Article760.41(B) states that an individual branch circuit is required for the supply of power to the fire alarm circuit. It also states that this branch circuit shall not have GFCI or AFCI.
Article 760.1 FPN 1 states that fire alarm systems include fire detection, i.e. smoke detectors.

Am I reading too much into it?

 

[iwire]

Article760.41(B) states that

Tony 760 does not apply at all to home smoke alarms, it applies to fire alarm systems. :smile:

 

[dnem]

What 'problems'?

Make me understand.

Um .......

so your mother in law comes over and vacuums your general areas in your house while you are on vacation..trips the hallway circuit and does not reset it..batteries go dead on smoke detectors..You come home and rest CB but now you have no battery backup and you do not know it..Yep sounds like I want my smokes on a hallway circuit...NOT...why would you not use a dedicated circuit for smokes when they are suppose to be interconnected..

 

[stickboy1375]

Why?

What difference does it make, run it dedicated, include it with lighting, or include it with recptacles.....it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it's an unswitched source of 125 VAC.

Bob, some things you just cant explain to people. :wink:

 

[iwire]

Um .......

David that simply strains any credibility.

To me thats like worrying a part will fall of a plane blast through my roof and take out the smoke detector.

At some point the HO has to take some responsibility for their own actions. As in changing the batteres, pushing the test button etc.

Heck some folks (like myself) turn off much of the power when I go away on vaction.

 

[radiopet]

The NEC does not care if you place the smokes on the lighting circuit( as long as you dont switch em...lol ) or the receptacle circuit as bob has stated. Simply does not matter and if you choose to make it a dedicated circuit then it is a choice you have to make but indeed as long as the smokes are protected by AFCI it does not matter.

if they just choose to not check the batteries then well.....thats beyond our control I guess and it tends to weed out te gene pool I guess.

 

[DesignerMan]

Tony 760 does not apply at all to home smoke alarms, it applies to fire alarm systems. :smile:

You'r absolutely correct! I dug a little deeper and found the following regarding home fire detectors in NFPA 72
11.6.3(4): AC power shall be supplied from a dedicated branch circuit or the unswitched portion of a branch circuit used for power & lighting.

It goes on to state that an AFCI can be used as the primary source as long as there is a secondary source (battery).

Thanks for setting me straight-learn something new every day!

 

[radiopet]

Just so happen I wanted to add something to this and get our take on it as I am sure it was beaten around before and since this thread is regarding AFCI's what better place to make the statement.

Just attended a Code Update Module for Virginia and the DHCD and well the guy made a statement that AFCI was not required on the light in the "Bedroom Closet"...my stance is they are required an since we do not have a def. of Bedroom or closet ( we are in the 2005 NEC mind you ) right now since the closet is in the bedroom it is part of the bedroom....

I happen to know Code Panel #2 Agrees as does Mark Early by way of the question was asked at the 102nd IAEI convention in 2006 and they addressed this issue....

Figured you guys would have some comments on it....love different views.

Edit: Spelling Error...Sorry

 

[electricmanscott]

Heck some folks (like myself) turn off much of the power when I go away on vaction.

Weirdo..... Or Wierdo :grin:

I before e.....huh??? :-?

Bob, what if you come home from vacation and your mother in law was vacuuming and the power was not on but then she turned it on and the breaker tripped and then she left it off but then a burglar came in and stole the copper wiring and you thought it was on but it wasn't because there was no wiring and then there was a fire because oil soaked rags were left and they spontaneously combusted and then you realized the smoke detectors batteries were swipped by the robber for his ipod because he needed tunes to steal by..........Is that how you want this to go down?

 

[electricmanscott]

Mass got that one right.

Really?

Receptacles are allowed on the circuit feeding smoke detectors and as I said there is NO reason not to allow it.

 

[iwire]

IMO A closet is a closet and a bedroom is a bedroom.

If they want AFCI protection in the closet they should say closet.

If the bedroom closet is "the bedroom" are receptacles and lighting outlets required?

 

[iwire]

Weirdo..... Or Wierdo :grin:

I before e.....huh??? :-?

Either is acceptable and accurate.

I also shut off my water main.

Bob, what if you come home from vacation and your mother in law was vacuuming and the power was not on but then she turned it on and the breaker tripped and then she left it off but then a burglar came in and stole the copper wiring and you thought it was on but it wasn't because there was no wiring and then there was a fire because oil soaked rags were left and they spontaneously combusted and then you realized the smoke detectors batteries were swipped by the robber for his ipod because he needed tunes to steal by..........Is that how you want this to go down?

Perfect


BTW, I am fairly certain my MIL does not know what a vacuum cleaner is.

 

[radiopet]

Prior to 2008 NEC...Whats a Closet. What defines a bedroom in any addition as we know what defines a bathroom...right...and for that matter we know what a kitchen is now...finally.

My opinion is if it is in the bedroom it is part of the bedroom until it is defined out of the bedroom which I guess in 2008 is moot anyway.

 

[iwire]

My opinion is if it is in the bedroom it is part of the bedroom

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In that case 210.52(A) and 210.70(A)(1) must apply to the closet space, can't have it both ways. :smile: