home smoke detectors

[iwire]

bozo died lastnight

Yes, he did.

Was the party going good when you heard about his death?

 

[dnem]

Your mixing products.

Smoke Detectors are not the same item as Smoke Alarms

Smoke Alarms are never part of a system.

They are stand alone and can be interconnected.

They are never covered by 760

On the other hand smoke detectors that connect to a panel are covered by 760


In some areas even if you have a fire alarm system with heats and smokes covered by 760 you will still have to install smoke alarms as the laws generally require smoke alarms in dwelling units and do not recognize smoke detectors.

I think the farther this thread goes, the more it becomes apparent that most of what is being said is agreed by all. .

Iwire talks about detectors and systems and 760 and I think everybody agrees that all of those things don't apply to single station.

The final point of disagreement, that I see, is the definition of "alarm". . I don't see that "alarm" tells you if you're exclusively in a system or exclusively in a single station.

 

[iwire]

I don't see that "alarm" tells you if you're exclusively in a system or exclusively in a single station.

Then you have not looked in the UL white book.

Smoke Alarms are one category, Smoke detectors are another.

And 'smoke alarms' do not have to be single station, they can be interconnected.

The key points of smoke alarms is they are self contained and they have there own noisemaker.

 

[iwire]

Some of the UL white book info. :smile:

This first quote has to do with smoke alarms

Single- and Multiple-station Smoke Alarms
(UTGT)
USE
This category covers single- and multiple-station smoke alarms intended to be employed in indoor locations where sensitivity testing and maintenance of alarms, per section 10.4.4 of ANSI/NFPA 72, ‘‘National Fire Alarm Code’’ (2007 Edition), is required by code, Authorities Having Jurisdiction, or other requirement.

This category also covers single- and multiple-station smoke alarms that have been performance tested to a minimum 10-year extended battery life under normal ambient conditions. Unless otherwise noted in the individual Listings, the alarms are intended for flush-mounted installation only, and are not intended for use on surface-mounted boxes.

ALARM TYPES

Single Station — Self-contained units that incorporate a smoke chamber,
an optional heat detector, and related electrical components to initiate
an audible alarm signal from the unit when abnormal smoke or heat
(when a supplementary heat detector is provided) actuates the unit. These
devices may be energized from a commercial power-supply source by
means of permanent wiring in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70,
‘‘National Electrical Code,’’ flexible power-supply cord, use of limitedenergy
cable or equivalent wiring connected to the output of a suitable
Class 2 power supply, or by one or more batteries.
Where a battery is employed as the main supply, its depletion below
the level at which an alarm signal would be obtained is indicated by a
distinctive audible trouble signal which persists for at least seven days.

Multiple Station — Similar to single-station units but provided with leads
or terminals (or integral RF transmitter/receiver units) to permit the interconnection
of single-station units so that actuation of any one unit results in
actuation of the audible alarms of all units. The installation instructions
(manual) indicate the maximum number of units that can be interconnected.
Refer to Chapter 8 of ANSI/NFPA 72 and the instruction manual provided
with each smoke alarm for installation data. ANSI/NFPA 72 includes installation
requirements of fire warning equipment in family living units. This is
intended to cover living areas only and not common usage areas of multifamily
buildings such as corridors, lobbies, stairwells, etc.

This second quote has to do with smoke detectors

Smoke-automatic Fire Detectors (UROX)
GENERALThis category covers detecting combinations designed to detect smoke
particles. Smoke detectors may or may not be designed to be connected
to fire alarm system control units (see APPLICATIONS).
A heat detector and/or an audible-signaling appliance may be provided
integral with the detector.
The primary function of duct detectors is to shut down the blowers
and/or dampers of air conditioning and ventilating systems in an attempt
to prevent a possible panic and smoke damage from distribution of
smoke. Duct detectors are not intended as a substitute for open-area protection.
The level of toxicity produced by the combustibles at which smoke
detectors actuate has not been investigated.

DETECTOR TYPES

Photoelectric (P) — Designed to detect an abnormal density of smoke
particles, either by obscuration of a projected light path or reflection of
light from the smoke particles onto a light-sensitive element.

Ionization (I) — An ionization smoke detector has a small amount of
radioactive material that ionizes the air in the sensing chamber, thus rendering
it conductive and permitting a current flow through the air
between two charged electrodes. This gives the sensing chamber an effective
electrical conductance. When smoke particles enter the ionization
area, they decrease the conductance of the air by attaching themselves to
the ions, causing a reduction in mobility. When the conductance is less
than a predetermined level, the detector circuit responds.

Combination Photoelectric/Ionization (P/I) — Employs both principles
of detection in one unit.

Projected Beam (PB) — A light beam is projected across the space of
area to be protected.

Air Sampling (AS) — Consists of air-sampling ports at the ends of piping
or tubing extending from the detector unit to the areas to be protected.
A pump draws air from the protected area through the ports and
tubing to the detector where the air is analyzed for fire products.

APPLICATIONS
Open-area Protection (OAP) — Requires detector connection to a compatible
system control unit for operation.

Notice that a smoke dector used for Open area protection must be connected to a system control unit for operation.

 

[stickboy1375]

View attachment 1978 .................

 

[gndrod]

station 1 or 9

station 1 or 9

I believe that a multi-station does require to be on an AFCI BC also when it is on a smoke alarm system in a dwelling unit but not on the central fire alarm system in a multi-family dwelling. Hope that helps. rbj

 

[gndrod]

Whoops

Whoops

Clarification of Multi-family Common area does not require a SD on an AFCI.

 

[dnem]

This is a good topic because it is important to use the terms in the same way that documents like NFPA 72 and UL use them, otherwise the requirements can’t be pinpointed.

NFPA 72 uses some strange terms that aren’t used in common language. . 3 of them that apply to this conversation are:
Initiating device
Notification appliance
Annunciator

Let's skip annunicator because it's only used in systems that have the option or need/requirement to specify to the responder the location of the fire.

Bob,
When someone uses the word “detector”, that makes me think initiating device. . If the head is just an initiating device, then it’s part of a system. . When someone uses the word “alarm”, that makes me think of something that is making a noise or flashing, it makes me think of a notification appliance. . If the head is just a notification appliance, then it’s part of a system.

For the head to be considered a single station it must self contained and be initiating, notification, and have its own backup power supply. . So is a notification appliance an “alarm” or do you also need initiating and backup power for it to be an “alarm’ ?

Notice that the UL category for detector simply states:
“Smoke-automatic Fire Detectors (UROX)”

But the UL one for alarm specifies single or multiple station
“Single- and Multiple-station Smoke Alarms”

So if instead of saying “Single- or Multiple-station Alarm” I just say “Alarm”, can we be sure that we’re still talking about a head that has initiating, notification, and backup power ?
or is it
Single- or Multiple-station Alarm = initiating, notification, and backup power
while Alarm = notification only ?

 

[iwire]

David I really don't know what your asking.

I have posted the UL info, IMO a notification device is clearly not an 'alarm'.

 

[dnem]

David I really don't know what your asking.

I have posted the UL info, IMO a notification device is clearly not an 'alarm'.

It's not clear.

You posted UL info that said
Single- and Multiple-station Smoke Alarms
How about an alarm that is not Single- or Multiple-station ?

From ULs info I can see that
Single- or Multiple-station Alarm = initiating, notification, and backup power = not a system

But it does answer the question for an Alarm that is not Single- or Multiple-station.

If heads that are notification only are called alarms, then they are part of a system.

 

[gndrod]

Alarm

Alarm

It all comes down to what the fire marshal requires for a system. The requirements can be for both audible and visual alarms outside the building and audible/visual in the building. Some people can't hear and some can't see through the fog or smoke. I agree with Bob on hhis point that NEC references to a fire alarm system (760) and has little relevance to a home smoke detector/alarm. From a commercial-industrial standpoint, that is vialble, but from a residential aspect in general a station type reference does not appear in the NEC 70.

Using the UL White Book can really cause dispersion because there are overlapping references to various fire alarm and smoke detector classifications that can be applicable in both areas. Household Fire-Warning systems (UTLQ) can also be installed for commercial use depending on the facility size that may warrant a fire-control panel. I have worked LS 101 and know that it varies by jurisdiction considerably. In SF Bay Area, Houses over water do not require strobes and sirens whereas commercial do in certain areas. So Bob, I agree with you in your wisdom (partially), but agree with David also about terminology confusion as experienced in the NEC. :] rbj

 

[iwire]

You guys have totally lost me, I have no idea what the heck your talking about. :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

 

[iwire]

You posted UL info that said
Single- and Multiple-station Smoke Alarms
How about an alarm that is not Single- or Multiple-station ?

What the heck is "an alarm that is not Single- or Multiple-station?"

I have never heard of just 'Alarm'

 

[gndrod]

what the....

what the....

A single station, or multiple station device(s) can have a detector with its own alarm(s) within a fire alarm system to a control box. A single station home smoke alarm is by itself not a fire alarm system per any references used in the NEC art 760. I think we can all argee on that. rbj