Hot Tub Wiring, 220V

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, how many third year apprentices are sent to a customers house on a Sunday afternoon to look at an Art.680 install?

To the OP, I believe you are in over your head and need to talk to your boss. No pun intended, but you can really land yourself in hot water on this one.

I looked at the fact that he is in PA. I am not sure what if any licensing they have. 3 years is not a lot but will not judge his ability. If this is his first hot tub i hope he has code book and read it several times. A mistake here could kill someone. CAUTION is key word here, far too many little details that can be overlooked.

 

[busman]

Also, there may be local codes added to the NEC. In the City of Alexandria, Virginia, they require a "kill switch" in the bathroom. This became a local code after a young girl got her hair caught in the intake and her mother couldn't turn it off before the girl drowned.

I can't find any requirement for this in the Alexandria Code. The USBC supersedes local codes where they conflict. Are you sure this isn't urban legend or inspectors run amok (say it isn't so)?

Mark

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can't find any requirement for this in the Alexandria Code. The USBC supersedes local codes where they conflict. Are you sure this isn't urban legend or inspectors run amok (say it isn't so)?

Mark

This is easily done with a dead front gfci switch. I have done it that way since I can remember just in case the air switch got stuck in the "on" position.

 

[jumper]

This thread is a bit silly, as we and the OP have not defined the install and we are grasping at straws. We offer advice to an unknown situation?:-?

 

[mmarro]

I am going to get a permit and an inspection on the job. I have talked with a few local inspectors and they also advised me to read article 680. As I have not yet even looked at the job, once I do, I will give all the details. I thank you all for your candor. I appreciate the seriousness of this install, and I am not going to take any short cuts or skimp on any detail. There is nothing here to be messing around with. I am trying to coordinate with the HO when i can go over there to look at the job, and if it is too much, trust me, I will not be doing it.

 

[hurk27]

I am going to get a permit and an inspection on the job. I have talked with a few local inspectors and they also advised me to read article 680. As I have not yet even looked at the job, once I do, I will give all the details. I thank you all for your candor. I appreciate the seriousness of this install, and I am not going to take any short cuts or skimp on any detail. There is nothing here to be messing around with. I am trying to coordinate with the HO when i can go over there to look at the job, and if it is too much, trust me, I will not be doing it.

look closely at the parts of 680 I posted in post 11, and just don't be afraid to ask questions when your not sure about something.

 

[Split Bolt]

I can't find any requirement for this in the Alexandria Code. The USBC supersedes local codes where they conflict. Are you sure this isn't urban legend or inspectors run amok (say it isn't so)?

Mark

Hey Mark, Just went through Alexandria's website and couldn't find anything either. Honestly, this has never been enforced on me because I haven't done any indoor hydromassage bathtubs in Alex., but I have heard many friends grumbling about it in the past few years. As you said, it could be inspectors run amok! Just like the fact that they will wrongly fail you for a 15A duplex receptacle on a dedicated, 20A microwave circuit! (that has happened to me!) I have also noticed in some of the new condos there, while installing fans or changing lights, that the use of AFCI breakers is way beyond the scope of the 2005 NEC! I don't think these builders would use them just to be nice guys!

 

[busman]

GFCI as Disconnect?

GFCI as Disconnect?

This is easily done with a dead front gfci switch. I have done it that way since I can remember just in case the air switch got stuck in the "on" position.

If I were an inspector, I wouldn't accept a GFCI as a disconnecting means. They do not have an "off" button, just a test button. The fact that it's a test button implies that sometimes the test will fail and the GFCI not shut off the power.

Just one man's opinion.

Mark

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If I were an inspector, I wouldn't accept a GFCI as a disconnecting means. They do not have an "off" button, just a test button. The fact that it's a test button implies that sometimes the test will fail and the GFCI not shut off the power.

Just one man's opinion.

Mark

Your opinion is fine but it lacks the fact that the dead front is not a disconnect. The disconnect is the cord and plug under the tub. The dead front is just a convenience switch.

 

[M. D.]

Busman,click here , you will see this for dead front

Rated as a 1-1/2 HP motor control switch.

 

[480sparky]

If I were an inspector, I wouldn't accept a GFCI as a disconnecting means. They do not have an "off" button, just a test button. The fact that it's a test button implies that sometimes the test will fail and the GFCI not shut off the power.

Just one man's opinion.

Mark

What if I used this one?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think busman was talking about article 430.104

430.104 To Be Indicating.
The disconnecting means shall plainly indicate whether it is in the open (off) or closed (on) position.

Even so I believe the dead front indicates with the light. I don't believe it must say on and off or open and closed.

 

[M. D.]

Dennis,. the dead fronts I've used have both test and reset and on / off , indication.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis,. the dead fronts I've used have both test and reset and on / off , indication.

I agree I believe that would be suitable. The original point is that the recep. under the tub is really the disconnect anyway.

 

[busman]

I think busman was talking about article 430.104



Even so I believe the dead front indicates with the light. I don't believe it must say on and off or open and closed.

Yes, Dennis, that was part of what I was referring to. I once (early in my career) had an inspector complain about that section. I only had a decora RS cover on the truck, so I used a decora switch and used a Sharpie to indicate the on/off positions for a hardwired dishwasher. He accepted it, but was not too crazy about it.

But, I also learned something new today. I hadn't noticed that some GFCI are horsepower rated. I'm sure that listing is necessary for using the GFCI to protect motors, but I still wonder if they meant it as a disconnecting means. It just seems odd. Anyway, live and learn.

Mark