i Installed 240v to a hot tub yesterday, with a disconnect using a single pole switch using the ground and the neutral to the switch in theory when the switch is closed it will trip the GFCI Breaker I have done this many times, this time it did not trip the breaker I’m clueless at this point I am going back to install ground rods! I found in the main panel there is a ground coming from the meter through a grounded bushing straight to the cold water ground, no bonding in main panel nor not good continuity between main and sub panel ! What would be the correct fix here? I’m thinking a ground rod at the tub! But most likely at the meter which a deck is built around?SMH???
Hot tub
- Thread starter Murr72
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
What is the purpose of the ground rod at the tub?
A GFCI trips when the sum of the current flowing in the conductors that are supposed to carry the current add up to some value greater than zero (> about 6ma).
If there is no current flowing at all, it won’t trip. For this reason, I can’t believe what you’re trying to do would meet the intent of the code-required disconnect.
And I agree with Tom - ground rods are irrelevant.
If there is no current flowing at all, it won’t trip. For this reason, I can’t believe what you’re trying to do would meet the intent of the code-required disconnect.
And I agree with Tom - ground rods are irrelevant.
That’s the question ground rod would create isolated ground for the hot tub but if the house isn’t originally grounded well it’s just connectors and couplings holding the ground since it’s not bonded with the neutral in the man panel! We are not talking about code because it is within code in my jurisdiction!
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Are you expecting your ground rod to work in the event of line to case fault?
I’m just asking for some help here I have 167v to a phase and 76v to b phase both hot to ground! Neutral to hot I have 120! I have in the past working for someone else that instructed me to drive a ground rod at the hot tub for extra grounding,I’m not sure that’s right but yes it would create a good enough ground to trip the GFCI through the switch! I was thinking!
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The extra ground will not work. Your ground from the building is delinquent somewhere.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
167v and 76v usually means you neutral is bad. but you are saying that those measurements are to ground. That doesn't make sense.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
You could buy a 50A spa disconnect with a 50A GFCI breaker cheaper than you can buy a stand alone GFCI breaker. Instead of fooling around with a single pole switch and trying to create a ground fault, why don't you just buy the correct disconnect and be done with it?
Also, the ground rod would accomplish zero, unless you count the exercise you get from pounding the rod in.
It also sounds like the bonding in the main panel is missing.
Also, the ground rod would accomplish zero, unless you count the exercise you get from pounding the rod in.
It also sounds like the bonding in the main panel is missing.
If the “ground”’he is measuring to isn’t continuous back to the neutral bonding point, the readings could be anything.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Add those values together and you get 243v which is probably what you will measure across the phases
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Your EGC is floating.
I guess that’s the right approach but was trying to avoid itYou could buy a 50A spa disconnect with a 50A GFCI breaker cheaper than you can buy a stand alone GFCI breaker. Instead of fooling around with a single pole switch and trying to create a ground fault, why don't you just buy the correct disconnect and be done with it?
Also, the ground rod would accomplish zero, unless you count the exercise you get from pounding the rod in.
It also sounds like the bonding in the main panel is missing.
Thanks for answering
Right it’s the ground but there is no actual bond in the panel ! I didn’t install the panel it’s old but now it seems to be my issue
Dsg319
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia
- Occupation
- Wv Master “lectrician”
Yes explain to the customer the importance of the neutral/EGC bonding in the service disconnect and why it is a must have fix.
Dsg319
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia
- Occupation
- Wv Master “lectrician”
This earth or a connection thereof is not meant for clearing ground faults, bonding and the EGC are for clearing fualts.
Amps
Electrical Contractor
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical, Security, Networks and Everything Else.
What do the voltages at A and B to ground measure at the panel to ground? Maybe use some insulated clip leads with alligator clips to temporarily jumper the bond at the panel and see if those voltage measurements change at the tub connection. If the grounds are connected to the neutral at the panel, then the ground to the tub must be floating as LarryFine stated. Is it broken between the panel and tub?
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Dsg319
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia
- Occupation
- Wv Master “lectrician”
Also a low impedance meter, Solenoid tester is best for checking for “real” voltage in these scenarios.
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