How to test GFCI, 5- to 1- Protection

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FionaZuppa said:
shouldnt every electrician know what a 1- and 5- receptacle is. all (ALL) of the other descriptions, other than "NEMA 5-" or "NEMA 1-", are made-up descriptions, such as "grounding" and "non-grounding" and "with EGC" and "without EGC".

and for clarity, the -15 or -20 are just types of 1- or 5-, etc. not really hard to understand. somehow i strike a chord on fundamentals?
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For residential receptacles it's not in the lexicon of the vast majority to use abbreviated NEMA designations, or NEMA designations at all, really. Grounding, non-grounding, two prong, three prong, etc., are. In fact outside of your posts here, I have never heard the 1- and 5- thing before.

My house still has several of these in use. Of course, mine are older, but have the same slot pattern. What is the NEMA designation for this:

053-05000-00I_large.jpg

You can't just say it's a 1- something because there is no EGC slot. If you were to go to the supply house and want a replacement for the above, what would you ask for? Before you think to the contrary, these are still available new for replacement purposes.
 
K8MHZ said:
For residential receptacles it's not in the lexicon of the vast majority to use abbreviated NEMA designations, or NEMA designations at all, really. Grounding, non-grounding, two prong, three prong, etc., are. In fact outside of your posts here, I have never heard the 1- and 5- thing before.

My house still has several of these in use. Of course, mine are older, but have the same slot pattern. What is the NEMA designation for this:

053-05000-00I_large.jpg

You can't just say it's a 1- something because there is no EGC slot. If you were to go to the supply house and want a replacement for the above, what would you ask for? Before you think to the contrary, these are still available new for replacement purposes.
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thats a type of NEMA 1-, which clearly means non-grounding type.

fundamentals:
NEMA 1- = non-grounding
NEMA 5- = grounding


a NEMA 1-15, 1-20, 1-30 are all 1- items , all are 2 blade, all are non grounding.
 
K8MHZ said:
For residential receptacles it's not in the lexicon of the vast majority to use abbreviated NEMA designations, or NEMA designations at all, really. Grounding, non-grounding, two prong, three prong, etc., are. In fact outside of your posts here, I have never heard the 1- and 5- thing before.
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I agree, until my job changed to where I was using different receptacles all the time I did not know about the NEMA designations.

Now I know a lot of them and it makes ordering easier.

My house still has several of these in use. Of course, mine are older, but have the same slot pattern. What is the NEMA designation for this:

053-05000-00I_large.jpg

You can't just say it's a 1- something because there is no EGC slot. If you were to go to the supply house and want a replacement for the above, what would you ask for? Before you think to the contrary, these are still available new for replacement purposes.
Click to expand...

:cool:


I would have to call it a NEMA 1 & 2 - 15

1 = 125 volt no ground

2 = 250 volt no ground

15 = current rating

So Fiona, I do know and use the NEMA designations but I am a nerd, not everyone is. :D
 
K8MHZ said:
Show me that in a chart. I don't think there is such a designation as "NEMA 1 & 2 - 15"
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a NEMA 2- is 250v
the outlet as pictured looks like a 1-15 2-15 250v recept combo, both non-grounding types
 
FionaZuppa said:
a NEMA 2- is 250v
the outlet as pictured looks like a 1-15 2-15 250v recept combo, both non-grounding types
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I don't care what it looks like, it is NOT a 250 volt receptacle. Follow the link I gave and see for yourself.

There is NO NEMA designation for a double T slot 125 volt receptacle, but they are being sold nonetheless. Most receptacles will have a NEMA configuration, but not all, which may be why the NEMA designations are not part of the standard lexicon of the trade for 15 and 20 amp receptacles.
 
K8MHZ said:
I don't care what it looks like, it is NOT a 250 volt receptacle. Follow the link I gave and see for yourself.

There is NO NEMA designation for a double T slot 125 volt receptacle, but they are being sold nonetheless. Most receptacles will have a NEMA configuration, but not all, which may be why the NEMA designations are not part of the standard lexicon of the trade for 15 and 20 amp receptacles.
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listed as a NEMA 1-15, but T slot looks like it can take a 2-15P (not sure if 1-15R T-slot's are exact dimensions as a 2-15P). so i was right in saying its a 1- :thumbsup:
the NEMA 2-15 2-20 combo in std recept yoke did exist at one point, NEMA 2-P has thicker pins i believe.

NEMA 2- recept rated 250v 20A (or does the yoke say 10A)?
2005-1-4_electrical_outlet_w550.jpg


"15 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA 1-15R, 2P, 2W"
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=5000-I&minisite=10251
 
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FionaZuppa said:
listed as a NEMA 1-15, but T slot looks like it can take a 2-15P (not sure if 1-15R T-slot's are exact dimensions as a 2-15P). so i was right in saying its a 1- :thumbsup:
"15 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA 1-15R, 2P, 2W"
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=5000-I&minisite=10251
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No, you are not correct. It is not listed, look at the certs. This is the description.

NEMA 1-15R, 2P, 2W, With Ears Duplex Receptacle, Straight Blade, Residential Grade, Non-Grounding, T-SLOT.

The 'T-SLOT' is crucial. Show me, from a NEMA site, where there is a NEMA 1-15R with T-SLOTs.

This is from the link as well. Does this look like the receptacle being sold?
​
NEMA 1-15R

ibcGetAttachment.jsp
 
FionaZuppa said:
listed as a NEMA 1-15, but T slot looks like it can take a 2-15P (not sure if 1-15R T-slot's are exact dimensions as a 2-15P). so i was right in saying its a 1- :thumbsup:
the NEMA 2-15 2-20 combo in std recept yoke did exist at one point, NEMA 2-P has thicker pins i believe.

NEMA 2- recept rated 250v 20A (or does the yoke say 10A)?
2005-1-4_electrical_outlet_w550.jpg


"15 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA 1-15R, 2P, 2W"
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=5000-I&minisite=10251
Click to expand...

The picture you are showing is of a Bryant that is listed for 250 volts. Then you post a link to Leviton that is not. Try again, please.
 
K8MHZ said:
The picture you are showing is of a Bryant that is listed for 250 volts. Then you post a link to Leviton that is not. Try again, please.
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was just showing a pic of same style of recept that had different ratings. the 1st rework of the Nurpolian, etc.


ok, some history (had to dig some to find it)

the T-slot you posted is a pin re-alignment of the old "Nurpolian"- a parallel 1- and tandem 2- (250v 10A) combo duplex receptacle. this old style was later re-crafted into T-slot 250v 10A and T-slot 125v 15A

the pic you posted is a NEMA 1-15/2- combo (US), but only rated at the lower 1-15 specs, 125v, etc.

so right, no NEMA pic exists because NEMA does not list combo receptacles. from what i can see, the dual T-slot you can but today is considered a 1-15 type than can accept 2-15/20/30P but only for loads and voltages of the 1-15 spec.

and as for the Leviton link i did post, it shows Leviton saying the item is a NEMA 1-15.
 
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FionaZuppa said:
ok, some history (had to dig some to find it)

the T-slot you posted is a pin re-alignment of the old "Nurpolian"- a parallel 1-15 and tandem 2-15 (250v 10A) combo duplex receptacle. this old style was later re-crafted into T-slot 250v 10A and T-slot 125v 15A

the pic you posted is a NEMA 1-15/2-15 combo (US), but only rated at the lower 1-15 specs, 125v, etc.

so right, no NEMA pic exists because NEMA does not list combo receptacles. from what i can see, the dual T-slot you can but today is considered a 1-15 type than can accept 2-15/20/30P but only for loads and voltages of the 1-15 spec.

and as for the Leviton link i did post, it shows Leviton saying the item is a NEMA 1-15.
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Now we are getting somewhere. It should be obvious to you that regardless of what Leviton has on their page, the T-slot receptacle pictured is not the same as a NEMA 1-15R. The graphic shown on the same page is, but the receptacle isn't.

NEMA does not 'list' anything. In this case, they are just naming configurations. There are receptacles, as you have now stated, that do exist that have no NEMA configurations.

I don't know for sure, but if that were not true, perhaps the NEMA references to household receptacles would be used in everyday conversation. The fact remains that the terms you dislike so and have replaced with truncated NEMA designations are the terms that will be understood here. When most electricains use NEMA designations, the NEMA is part of it. They don't just pick one number and a dash and expect to be understood.

Carry on using your 1- thing and your 5- thing if you wish, but I think you will get better interaction from the members here if you don't.

As you can see, I am fairly familiar with the NEMA configurations. I don't use them for household references here because that is not how it's done here, or most anywhere else.

Just for the heck of it, the next time I am at the supply house I will ask for a NEMA 1-15 receptacle and note the response. My guess is that it will be 'deer in the headlights'.

I KNOW that asking where the 1-15 receptacles are located at a BB store would get you just about nowhere.
 
K8MHZ said:
Now we are getting somewhere. It should be obvious to you that regardless of what Leviton has on their page, the T-slot receptacle pictured is not the same as a NEMA 1-15R. The graphic shown on the same page is, but the receptacle isn't.

NEMA does not 'list' anything. In this case, they are just naming configurations. There are receptacles, as you have now stated, that do exist that have no NEMA configurations.

I don't know for sure, but if that were not true, perhaps the NEMA references to household receptacles would be used in everyday conversation. The fact remains that the terms you dislike so and have replaced with truncated NEMA designations are the terms that will be understood here. When most electricains use NEMA designations, the NEMA is part of it. They don't just pick one number and a dash and expect to be understood.

Carry on using your 1- thing and your 5- thing if you wish, but I think you will get better interaction from the members here if you don't.

As you can see, I am fairly familiar with the NEMA configurations. I don't use them for household references here because that is not how it's done here, or most anywhere else.

Just for the heck of it, the next time I am at the supply house I will ask for a NEMA 1-15 receptacle and note the response. My guess is that it will be 'deer in the headlights'.

I KNOW that asking where the 1-15 receptacles are located at a BB store would get you just about nowhere.
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the dual T-slot you listed is a type of NEMA 1- :thumbsup:
this odd type is known as a "US Combo" and carries the ratings of 1- (which is only 1-15, 125v 15A).
why anyone still makes them is a big ?? NEMA 2- has been deprecated.

my supply house knows exactly what NEMA 1- and 5- receptacles are, if i ask they will respond "yes, we have 1-, what color do you need, and what type and color of 5- do you need".
 
FionaZuppa said:
the dual T-slot you listed is a type of NEMA 1- :thumbsup:
this odd type is known as a "US Combo" and carries the ratings of 1- (which is only 1-15, 125v 15A).
why anyone still makes them is a big ?? NEMA 2- has been deprecated.

my supply house knows exactly what NEMA 1- and 5- receptacles are, if i ask they will respond "yes, we have 1-, what color do you need, and what type and color of 5- do you need".
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Again, show me, on a NEMA web site, where a double t-slot receptacle is shown at all. What do you mean by a 'type' of NEMA 1-? What, exactly 'type' is it using only NEMA designation?

They are still made because there is a market for them, and many parts of the country (agricultural Michigan is one) anything goes. No inspections, no code, nothing.

Why do you say NEMA 2- has been deprecated?

They (double t-slots) are also popular among 'specialty growers' that use indoor lighting systems of both 125 and 250 volts.

Receptacles that can accept both 125 and 250 volt plugs are not allowed by the NEC, which pretty much means dual voltage double t-slot receptacles. NEMA 2 is still used, just not much.

So, what supply house do you use? They may be more NEMA versed than mine. Here, I am pretty sure I would have to explain what a NEMA 1- was, or they would have to look it up.
 
K8MHZ said:
Why do you say NEMA 2- has been deprecated?
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not me who says it, industry says so.

All NEMA 2 devices are two-wire non-grounding devices (hot-hot) rated for 250 V maximum. Although standards exist for 2-15, 2-20 and 2-30, this series is obsolete, and only Hubbell still manufactures 2-20 devices (for repair purposes)
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