Hurry we need a price, when? "Tomorrow 2pm" you've got to be kidding?

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Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Got a call today from a county kitchen that feeds the elderly. Apparently their rent doubled and they want to move their kitchen to another location. So the board meets tomorrow at 2pm and they want a price to take to the meeting. The've already secured a new tennant space.

So I go look at it, 400 amp service, existing 400 amp ILine panel, with (3) QB200 brkrs feeding three 200a/30 cir SQ D load centers (this all stays, and doesnt move with tennant). And around 20-25 pieces of commercial kitchen equip 3phase and single phase. Ranging from freezers, ovens, steam tables, water heaters, broilers, dishwashing equip, bla bla...So then the dwg is very very rough, penciled out yesterday, giving only approximate locations of equip. He also tells me, one other EC is giving them a price....and I know he will use C/H....


I told him I cant be fair to them and me and give them a price tomorrow as its simply not enough time and too many variables to work out. No 3ph service at the new location,got to work out details with poco, load calc's will have to be done... bla bla....Well he still needs the price....

I got a fast price from SQD this afternoon on the gear and panels and branch brkrs, but I've got alot of work to do yet, to figure this thing properly......So...Do I waste my time on this or make them wait? I know the other EC, he will just reach for the sky, and I dont want it unless I can feel comfortable about the price, and whistle while I work.......I've got a full days work also stairing me in the face tomorrow...what would you do? work all night on it? :rolleyes:
 
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480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Explain that they would probalby save money by paying another months' rent in order to find out for sure what it will cost to move. If nothing else, bid it on the seriously heavy side, and provide a document that limits how much work you will do for that price.

The people involved obviously don't know what it takes to do the work needed, let alone to produce an accurate bid.

The other option is to sit back and wait for proper documentation.... stamped prints, spec book, etc.
 
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sparkyway

Member
Location
South Central Ky
Been there. Rushed to get plans to the parts house...if ya want to call them plans. Did a ton of figuring. Spent a lot of time doing all the stuff. Got called at the last minute to Value Engineer the lighting and find a less expensive panel/switchgear package...more work. Two days later I found out how a EC friend of the owner was using my bid calc. After careful reconsideration of my bid... the EC will be eating some stuff I failed to figure and I still have trouble sleeping... yeah right! Its not worth the rush...never is. If you have plenty of work...let it go unless they give you more time.;)
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Dnkldorf said:
Sounds like he is looking for a prelim number so they can work out the budget.

Give him something kinda high, and then when you actually do bid the work come in under that amount, and look like an angel to them.
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I think your exactly right, Im just not experienced enough yet to give him that "kinda high" price. That fast anyway....

I thought about taking the single phase small runs, and the larger 3phase runs, then averaging them. Multiply times the number of pieces of equipment. Take my numbers from Ecost book......

Id love to have the job, not used to functioning like this.....

Spoiled on too much T/M......haha :D
 
Dnkldorf

Dnkldorf

Senior Member
You know, thinking about this, if he already secured the new space and din't think of this, this could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Without looking at both places, he could be upwards of 50K pretty quick.
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
480sparky said:
Explain that they would probalby save money by paying another months' rent in order to find out for sure what it will cost to move. If nothing else, bid it on the seriously heavy side, and provide a document that limits how much work you will do for that price.

The people involved obviously don't know what it takes to do the work needed, let alone to produce an accurate bid.

The other option is to sit back and wait for proper documentation.... stamped prints, spec book, etc.
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They start moving May 15, and start cooking June 1

chris kennedy said:
This is local govt work? Have you worked with them before?
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Yes its local, no I have not worked for them before..but I know there's alot of corporate funding as well as United Way

sparkyway said:
Been there. Rushed to get plans to the parts house...if ya want to call them plans. Did a ton of figuring. Spent a lot of time doing all the stuff. Got called at the last minute to Value Engineer the lighting and find a less expensive panel/switchgear package...more work. Two days later I found out how a EC friend of the owner was using my bid calc. After careful reconsideration of my bid... the EC will be eating some stuff I failed to figure and I still have trouble sleeping... yeah right! Its not worth the rush...never is. If you have plenty of work...let it go unless they give you more time.;)
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Yea, Im setting here in the chair thinking Im 50/50 on the deal.. and dont know which way to go.......and Im a conservative guy...so I met let it go...dont know...
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Dnkldorf said:
You know, thinking about this, if he already secured the new space and din't think of this, this could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Without looking at both places, he could be upwards of 50K pretty quick.
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To replace the existing SQD components is $3300 cost......

Everything will be realitively short distances service wise..........so he marked the sketch, like all the ovens go in this room, all the frig's in this room, bla bla...
 
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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
I wouldn't waste my time - tell them to give you the other guys number and you'll see if you can do any better. They have no idea how long it takes to put together a real bid - and they certainly don't care about you. If you need to give a number make it rough and high - educate them a bit - tell them that the other EC can't give you a good number either with very broad details. I'd say for example - it will be between $10k and $40k and no knows what it will be until you have specifics. The other guy would be lying if he gave a hard number - unless it was so high anyone would make a huge profit.

Or - bust your *ss in the next 12 hours to get a close real number and not even get the job - then you can come back here and complain to everyone how the other guy low balled you. would you rather do that? no.

The people who asked for a price aren't losing sleep tonight why should you?
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Mule said:
....Spoiled on too much T/M......haha :D
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Having experience bidding a lot of jobs would come in real handy right now.
constipated-smiley.gif
 
Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
This looks like another "mule " what would you do thread. Mules probably already decided what hes going to do ...or probably already done it ... so for the benefit of others i will say this ,usually when someone wants a bid in under a day and another EC is on board you are wasting your time. most boards want a minimum of two bids that doesn't mean they don't have a favorite they just make sure one guy gets plenty of notice for a good bid and the other bidder is put under the gun and if for some reason the other guy should get a bid in the favored EC will always get a second look. Just my expierience.....disclaimer...this is not advice on what mule should do.
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
CopperTone said:
I wouldn't waste my time - tell them to give you the other guys number and you'll see if you can do any better. They have no idea how long it takes to put together a real bid - and they certainly don't care about you. If you need to give a number make it rough and high - educate them a bit - tell them that the other EC can't give you a good number either with very broad details. I'd say for example - it will be between $10k and $40k and no knows what it will be until you have specifics. The other guy would be lying if he gave a hard number - unless it was so high anyone would make a huge profit.

Or - bust your *ss in the next 12 hours to get a close real number and not even get the job - then you can come back here and complain to everyone how the other guy low balled you. would you rather do that? no.

The people who asked for a price aren't losing sleep tonight why should you?
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Yep I thought about that....Im thinking let the other EC blow smoke and make a fool out of his self, and I'll submit a smok'n well laid out proposal after the fact....

I'll assure you that the last installation, which was two years ago and done by the local union shop was closer to 40k than the 10k figure
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Rewire said:
This looks like another "mule " what would you do thread. Mules probably already decided what hes going to do ...or probably already done it ... so for the benefit of others i will say this ,usually when someone wants a bid in under a day and another EC is on board you are wasting your time. most boards want a minimum of two bids that doesn't mean they don't have a favorite they just make sure one guy gets plenty of notice for a good bid and the other bidder is put under the gun and if for some reason the other guy should get a bid in the favored EC will always get a second look. Just my expierience.....disclaimer...this is not advice on what mule should do.
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I love you too....:rolleyes: No I havent made up my mind....just kicking it around....I did ask the guy, where he got my name and it was from a mutual friend for what ever its worth....
 
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Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Think I'll call him in the morning, tell him, "Get your price from the other EC" and if you still want another bid, I'll be happy to do it with the proper amount of time given.....

Dont like being out on a limb......wont be the end of the world if I dont get it.:cool:
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
If nothing else, Mule, use what you do know... T&M. Tell 'em point blank there's no way, given the situation, it's possible to even speculate on a price, and you'll only agree to T&M terms unless they provide the documentation needed for a firm price.
 
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