Hurry we need a price, when? "Tomorrow 2pm" you've got to be kidding?

[iwire]

Actually it always comes from someone telling me Im too low........Guess I could have no response, when someone tells me that, would you feel better then?

Come on dude......Its always someone telling me Im too cheap.

I would bet you are.

You seem more worried about being the customers friend then making money for you and your family.

....Am I wrong?

If you dont want me to stand up, dont kick me down...its that simple...

Do I tell you your too high? Nope

If your not interested in other ways of doing things why do you post?

 

[Mule]

I would bet you are.

You seem more worried about being the customers friend then making money for you and your family.




If your not interested in other ways of doing things why do you post?

Well again here we are talking about local rates and what the okie charges. And again here we are not talking about the topic in the original post.
Now, your telling me, Im not taking care of my family.
And again, Im not telling you what I think of the way you carry your business, but I have to listen to a select few drill me....

And again, If I didnt stand up, and defend myself, this would not happen...If you will read through the post, everything was smooth sailing untill the amount that I stated in the prelim estimate was exposed. And one of the regurlar's has to comment about my prices, and again I stand up, not taking any crap....

Sounds like I need to take a vacation from posting, because the gain doesnt outway the pain. It wears me out, ane wears everyone else out. as other folks have to labor reading this degrading trash talk, which is what it is.

So to me it boils down to my previous statment..."If you dont want me to stand up, dont knock me down"

I continually get PM's from folks who agree with me and encourage me to stand up to this aggression.......but seriously why? what value is there in it? I surely cant see it..

Im out of here.

 

[Dnkldorf]

Now, your telling me, Im not taking care of my family.

Easy tiger.

Bob said

You seem more worried about being the customers friend then making money for you and your family

He used the word seem, which is an opinion, not the word are, which has a totally different meaning.

You have to read what is written, not read what you want to see.

 

[greg y]

This may be off subject but i belong to several other forums and they really get to talking like this and i get away from those to get some good tips from others and then this . I know times are tough but can we help and encourage each other out in these tough times and learn something new everyday?

 

[jrannis]

Well again here we are talking about local rates and what the okie charges. And again here we are not talking about the topic in the original post.
Now, your telling me, Im not taking care of my family.
And again, Im not telling you what I think of the way you carry your business, but I have to listen to a select few drill me....

And again, If I didn't stand up, and defend myself, this would not happen...If you will read through the post, everything was smooth sailing until the amount that I stated in the prelim estimate was exposed. And one of the regurlar's has to comment about my prices, and again I stand up, not taking any crap....

Sounds like I need to take a vacation from posting, because the gain doesnt outway the pain. It wears me out, ane wears everyone else out. as other folks have to labor reading this degrading trash talk, which is what it is.

So to me it boils down to my previous statment..."If you dont want me to stand up, dont knock me down"

I continually get PM's from folks who agree with me and encourage me to stand up to this aggression.......but seriously why? what value is there in it? I surely cant see it..

Im out of here.

Mule,
They are a bunch of Yankees, forgive them, they don't know what they are doing:smile:

 

[growler]

I gave him a prelim estimate of $22.5K and his body language told me it was alot of money to him....

Mule I don't think anyone is questioning your rates as much as the method that you use to arrive at them.

The fact that someone thinks that $22.5 is a lot of money is meaningless. This guy probably has no idea of the amount of work that will need to be done to open the kitchen in the new location. So his opinion of the amount of money it will cost are useless.

The only way that the $22.5K estimate has any meaning is if you quantify it. The only way to quantify it is with a detailed scope of work stating exactly what they can get for this amount of money.

You may be able to install a new service and hook up all the equipment listed for this amount but will this get them a certificate of occupancy and the legal right to open up the kitchen.

These people need to have a real idea of what it's going to cost to move into the new location in order to develope a real budget.

If all the other trades also give low guesstimates of actual cost the project will end up underfunded and no one will get their money for a long time.

I seriously doubt if anyone cares what your rates are, most people tend to look at this as a hypothetical project that they themselves may end up being a part of sooner or later and tell you what they would do. Either that or they remember where they lost out in the past and learned a valuable lesson ( expensive lesson ) and now know where problems can come up before the project is over.

A quick question: How many commercial kitchens have you done in the past?

 

[iwire]

Now, your telling me, Im not taking care of my family.

That is not what I said at all, don't try to spin it.

And again, If I didnt stand up, and defend myself, this would not happen...If you will read through the post, everything was smooth sailing untill the amount that I stated in the prelim estimate was exposed. And one of the regurlar's has to comment about my prices, and again I stand up, not taking any crap....

If your point of starting a thread is simple to say what you do, how you do it and how your customers react then your at the wrong forum.

When people disagree with how you charge that is their right and it is your right to ignore them. There is no need to get upset. For a mule you have some pretty thin skin.

So to me it boils down to my previous statment..."If you dont want me to stand up, dont knock me down"

No one is 'knocking you down' many of the people who respond to your posts are successful businessmen themselves and they are trying to help you not make the same mistakes they have or have seen. As 480sparky mentioned, you have to CYA.

I continually get PM's from folks who agree with me and encourage me to stand up to this aggression

What aggression, really no one is calling you names and I think many of the members have a respect for you.

Im out of here.

D?j? vu

 

[greg y]

Mule not knocking you , but after reading this "soap opera" i personally see the best thing to do is just keep you,r business end off of here and do what you have to do for you,r self , like i have told my son and his family and i personally live to this myself , " If it does not personally harm my family don't let it get to you and don't worry about it". It is just people talking and does noone no good in the end but create hard feelings towards eveyone.

 

[charlietuna]

Muley,
I am sorry if i offended you--from your first post it seemed you were asking the forum members their opinions on bidding this certain job with a very limited amount of time to bid it and more importantly A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO INSTALL IT ! I reread all the posts and find that people here provided you their opinion. Some think your guess was high and others too low. I don't believe anyone here is bidding against you on this job ! Most probably are giving you their gut guess--from their experience in the field from jobs they were faced with, that might have been similar. From the comments you made - you needed help. But your last post tells me you kind of "know it all" and anybody who disagreed with your opinion was picking on you. Actually, i am one member who will not miss your posts!!!

 

[Mule]

Mule not knocking you , but after reading this "soap opera" i personally see the best thing to do is just keep you,r business end off of here and do what you have to do for you,r self , like i have told my son and his family and i personally live to this myself , " If it does not personally harm my family don't let it get to you and don't worry about it". It is just people talking and does noone no good in the end but create hard feelings towards eveyone.

Muley,
I am sorry if i offended you--from your first post it seemed you were asking the forum members their opinions on bidding this certain job with a very limited amount of time to bid it and more importantly A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO INSTALL IT ! I reread all the posts and find that people here provided you their opinion. Some think your guess was high and others too low. I don't believe anyone here is bidding against you on this job ! Most probably are giving you their gut guess--from their experience in the field from jobs they were faced with, that might have been similar. From the comments you made - you needed help. But your last post tells me you kind of "know it all" and anybody who disagreed with your opinion was picking on you. Actually, i am one member who will not miss your posts!!!

Thanks guys, I speak too freely and forget that the wolves are out there lurking, and sometimes I get too bruised up and jump on someone I shouldnt. And your right most folks are just trying to help and I hope that I've always made that clear.... But it only takes a handfull to spoil it for me, and allowing that to happen is soley my fault, and I appologize....I just need to shut up, and go on down the road, because it always ends like this, with my prices as the topic, and it makes my blood boil, and it always ends being a pride issue with the pridefull standing on a soap box throwing remarks and dirt at me, and me standing up and not willing to take it, and Im a fool for asociating myself with such talk...........so I just need to wise up...lets all let it lay.....

Later....much later.........not so smart "Mule"

 

[aline]

Do I tell you your too high? Nope

No. You just suggest that some of us are approaching being un-ethical because we sell a ballast for $60 that the customer can buy at Home Depot for $20.

So for me to try and sell a ballast for $60 that the customer has the power to buy for $20 is approaching un-ethical.

So,,,about that plumber...If you can go down and buy that HWT for $200, are you willing to pay a plumber 3x's? plus his labor rate of $75 x I dont know maybe 3hrs for a easy changeout or maybe 4hr. So that would be in the 800-900-1000 range....Not me....But your right I've heard of those kind of prices for a HWT change.

If a person sold you a piece of bubble gum that is .25 in the machine, and you paid him $10 for it and he didnt hold a gun to your head...Is that un-ethical?

Some here may feel your prices are too low just as some here feel that marking up a ballast that a customer can buy for $20 to $60 is approaching the un-ethical.
What's more offensive, suggesting someone's price is too low, or suggesting someone is approaching being un-ethical?

 

[ohm]

This type of situations seems to happen to me on a very regualr bases, as a result I go in very high to keep myself safe then add this at the end of the bid

"Further savings may be achieved by further reviewing the requirements for the distribution and related equipment however, rather than make assumptions that may be contrary to the design intent and client?s requirements, we believe that this should be carried out in consultation between Haworth and the Architect and Engineers."

Its amazing how many times this works, and more amazing is how many times I get to keep very close to the high price.

Love it! That goes in my playbook!

 

[augie47]

"Food Service" jobs are high on the list of "gotchas" for ECs as it is.
From what you say this guy has 3 phase equip. and no 3 phase service readily available - already a disaster which he won't understand ("it just plugs in")
Lots of low-ballers available and you seem to want to do it "right" so you would probaly loose out to a cheap price anyway.
Hopefully the person that recommended you also told them of your quality, etc.
I'd tell him you can't give him a fair price on that short time, leave him a card and when it all goes to hell in a week or so he may call you to bail him out at T&M.
If you're not hurting for the work, I'd walk.

 

[satcom]

"Food Service" jobs are high on the list of "gotchas" for ECs as it is.
I'd tell him you can't give him a fair price on that short time, leave him a card and when it all goes to hell in a week or so he may call you to bail him out at T&M.
If you're not hurting for the work, I'd walk.

That sounds like a plan, and in a week he should have all his prices together.

 

[Sparky555]

And again, If I didnt stand up, and defend myself, this would not happen...If you will read through the post, everything was smooth sailing untill the amount that I stated in the prelim estimate was exposed. And one of the regurlar's has to comment about my prices, and again I stand up, not taking any crap....

Im out of here.

In a limited open-forum like this you get a variety of opinions with any question. Some replies are pure gold and some are garbage. It helps to be more like a duck (let it roll off your back) than a mule.

 

[Mule]

In a limited open-forum like this you get a variety of opinions with any question. Some replies are pure gold and some are garbage. It helps to be more like a duck (let it roll off your back) than a mule.

Well said.......:smile: And it has absolutely has no value being stubborn as mule responding to garbage as it get all over you. Then again the pure gold ones are well took....

 

[emahler]

Mule,

You would be taken more seriously if when you made a scene and slammed the front door on your way out, you didn't just walk around the house and come in the back door.

Just sayin'

 

[Mule]

So, if your looking for a response from me, Im trying to wise up and be smarter. Its these kinds of exchanges that ALWAYS end up with two posters that dont have any better sense than to shut up, and then the door slams as you said. Why? because of foolish pride...and Im not very smart for joining in....but Im working on wise'n up..

Why step in a mud puddle when you can just walk around it?

So I'll turn this back toward the OP, I'm calling the customer monday to follow up on my prelim estimate and the meeting that was held, and ask if he still wants a accurate bid.

Emahler, or anyone else, thanks for your help in the past, I appologize if I've offended you. My temper is the problem, there will always be positive and negative people, and I've got to learn to be less sensitive to the reactions of others.....

How's that?

 

[greg y]

Mule no matter what anyone say,s i do not personally know you except what you say on here and i beleive you are a good man. We all go through some things once in a while and let it get to us, like someone said earlier " let it roll off of your back". This outburst on this subject is one reason why i personally do not post on here a lot (nothing personal) but i know how it is when everyone else knows more about your situation than you do. But that is life, i feel like that song by "Kansas" said "CARRY ON WAYARD SON".

 

[growler]

I speak too freely and forget that the wolves are out there lurking.

It'a obvious tha mule is suffering from "Agrizoophobia" and possibly "Allodoxaphobia".

This is actually a joke, I just like looking up all the names that have been given to the fears experienced by society.

I wish I had been a psychiatrist, any one of these words could make me rich all that's needed is to find the right nut job, one with money.:grin: