I have pix too........too

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fww56

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Pgh, Pa.
I might as well put my feet to the fire too. Here are some shots of a sub panel upgrade I did last spring that I'm fairly pleased with. Originally this was a wooden fuse box lined with asbestos, upgraded sometime in the 80's with the guts of a modern GE panel.

I put in two gutters to transition from the existing knob and tube and gave them something I'm not ashamed to put my name to.

Note the original fuse diagram dated 1936.

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FRANK
 
Neat work, but too bad your brought the K&T into those junction boxes in a non-compliant manner. 300.16(A). You changed from K&T to that RMC nipple without having a seperately bushed opening for each conductor. That said, I wouldn't have done anything different.
 
That's a "monkey face" a three hole bushing commonly used to transition to knob and tube from flex.

What I found most curious about that is the ground lug attached to the flex and the attempt to isolate the ground / neutrals but total disregard for anything else related to the code during this previous upgrade. Also note the GFCI breaker for the whirlpool tub.

I needed to get into this "panel" to accommodate a bathroom remodel. This panel helped turn a $1500 bathroom wiring job into close to $20,000 worth of work including new service, re-feeding a garage and rewiring all pool related equipment.

How's that go again? Oh yeah, CHA-CHING!

FRANK
 
mdshunk said:
Neat work, but too bad your brought the K&T into those junction boxes in a non-compliant manner. 300.16(A). You changed from K&T to that RMC nipple without having a separately bushed opening for each conductor. That said, I wouldn't have done anything different.
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I haven't got my books here with me at the moment but the accepted way to bring K&T into a box around here is to use a piece of loom in a standard romex connector which I did. In each box I changed to THHN then brought that through the nipples.

How else would you do it?
 
fww56 said:
I needed to get into this "panel" to accommodate a bathroom remodel. This panel helped turn a $1500 bathroom wiring job into close to $20,000 worth of work including new service, re-feeding a garage and rewiring all pool related equipment.
FRANK
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Frank get's the Mike Holt "Contractor of the Month" award.

Nice job, nice upsell. :)
My only critique...You forgot your spackle. :wink:

Edit to add: Why didn't you bring the K&T into the panel? Looks like it would reach?
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I am not sure where he did not comply with the NEC. Please show me further where he did not comply. It looks as though he did bring each K&T into the box individually.
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That's how it's done around here (usually). Some guys will use the sheathing from romex, some prefer old pieces of loom and use that, each conductor through a separate connector.

I understand how local practices vary, that's why I asked. I'm always up for a better method.

FRANK
 
electricmanscott said:
Frank get's the Mike Holt "Contractor of the Month" award.
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Thank's for the nomination, I'm flattered. I'd like to thank........ By the way, how much money goes with the award?

electricmanscott said:
My only critique...You forgot your spackle. :wink:
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I DID spackle, I used two whole buckets. I don't know where it all went. :)

electricmanscott said:
Why didn't you bring the K&T into the panel? Looks like it would reach?
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. The biggest reason is that although the K&T may have been long enough, the new panel fills the stud bay and I would have had to butcher the framing to access them.

. Another thing is that with all considered, I knew that this would really clean up the panel. I needed no splices in the panel. And although I have a good report with the inspector, with the pontential amount of work I had coming up on the job, this panel was one of the first of several inspections I knew I was going to be getting. This helped set the tone of future "encounters" with the inspector, I considered it an "investment". The job went very well.

. This was a house worth close to $2m. This was the first of three panels that needed work. I had to replace this one as stated above because I had to pull a couple of circuits from it for the bathroom I was doing. I felt that with the other work pending and another electrician on the job doing the kitchen upgrade I went the extra mile. I considered it an "investment". When the other work was let, there was no contest.

FRANK
 
frizbeedog said:
Nice and clean. How many man hours?
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If I remember correctly I spent the better part of two days on a SUB PANEL. Sorting out the K&T and keeping the hots and neutrals paired correctly took a good bit of time. I had about a 60' pull of sub-feed from the basement. This is a 150 amp main lug panel fed from a 90 amp breaker in the main panel. It feeds seven bedrooms and three baths. I think I got $1500 for this panel.

FRANK
 
mdshunk said:
The codes says "each conductor" not each group of conductors. The typical method would have been to use a Federal bushing for each conductor.
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electricmanscott said:
I think they are all individual conductors entering individual openings.
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Each conductor is using one opening. Around here a romex connector with a piece of loom for each conductor is the standard.

As I said above, methods vary from region to region. That's what makes sites like this so valuable. You can see how others do and often find a more efficient method. And others can also point out the terrible things that you can get away with in your own region. ;) (just kidding I'm not throwing stones)

Much like the SE / rigid entrance debate. Around here if you bid every service upgrade with rigid or PVC for that matter, you wouldn't be doing very many. And the POCO will gladly come out to cut and tie in your new service, Just make the check for $325 and give it to the lineman.

FRANK
 
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don_resqcapt19 said:
I know that is what the code says, but why? That makes a violation of 300.20(A).
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I don't know why but IMO it would be the installers responsibility to meet the requirements in both sections. Seems to me a PVC box would be the best way to go.
 
fww56 said:
I needed no splices in the panel.
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Frank it looks good the way you did it but you should also know that the NEC does not prohibit splices in panels, the inspector has to accept splices in the panel.

That said.....it looks good and I am sure the inspector thought so to. :cool:
 
I'm well aware of spicing in panels and am not shy about exercising that option when necessary.

This panel was located centered on an end wall in a hallway. For me to be able to use the knockouts along the sides of the panel, I would have gotten into framing issues. I couldn't re-route the existing K&T through the available top or bottom knockouts. You can only do so much with a sawzall and a right angle drill.

Besides, this was the biggest picture they could draw on the back of the check ;)

FRANK
 
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