I have pix too........too

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frizbeedog said:
That's it.
I'm going looking for my theory textbook.
It must be somewhere in my clutter room.
I'll be back. :rolleyes:
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When I do service upgrades, the old panels are often on the front porch with the old A base meter and both circuits to the home. When I relocate the panel and meter to a more appropriate location, I refeed the two K&T circuits on the porch with a 4-square and bring each K&T conductor into the box through a plastic 1/2" knockout bushing. This is the same bushing that 220/221 favors in a larger size for all his cables.
 
mdshunk said:
....I refeed the two K&T circuits on the porch with a 4-square and bring each K&T conductor into the box through a plastic 1/2" knockout bushing..
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I do the same but I tape the conductors together where they enter the clamp. Don't know why, just seemed to make sense. You're just talking about a bushing with no clamping? Right?
 
mdshunk said:
Slot the enclosure, using the provision of 300.20(B)(1). This is why you use Federal bushings, to take advantage of this. Federal busings are porcelain or Bakelite.

I still maintain that the posted pictures, while certainly neat, are a violation of 300.16(A).
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You know Marc, after thinking about this, you got me on this. This is one of the good things about a forum like this. When a practice such as this becomes the normal procedure in an area, as well as other local practices in other areas, it would be easy to just accept it and keep on keepin' on. But by letting this out for critique we can open ourselves up to critique, suggestions and even just another slant on things, a good thing.

Back to this though, with the loads carried on these circuits and the fact that they have been carrying these loads through single openings throughout the system for over 70 years. I don't think I'll loose much sleep over this installation. Maybe PVC next time.

But I do appreciate yours and others on this forums' critique and have always respected your knowledge of the code, keep up the good work.

FRANK
 
e57 said:
Anyway Frank - Nice work! Just hoping you closed that KO on the right side? ;)
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Thanks, and I sure did install KO cover in there. They don't let every violation get through.;)

And the boxes are bonded through the nipples.

FRANK
 
mdshunk said:
What do you mean? What does "seperately bushed hole for each conductor" mean to you?
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These appear to be seperately bushed enough for my taste: And required by 314.17....

DSCF6439.jpg


But that said - not knowing where the knobs are they could be better supported and the loom brought right to the knob - prefferable method.... (394.19) ;)

And I will stick to my guns that 300.20 has little effect on the side of the box with both conductors of each of the circuits passing so close for such a short distance - does it make it right - IMO yeah.....:rolleyes: If one "SINGLE" conductor each were passing through a metallic conduit for a distance, or all neutral and hots were in different boxes I might have a problem with that if I were so inclined to have one. But I am not so inclined....(As an AHJ) Or is that the case. They appear to alternate hot and neutral in close proximity throughout the box, as they were probably brought to the panel originally in pairs - standard practice of the time - I think I can assume the seperation of each circuit conductor is no more than the diagonal measurement of that box. Or do I feel it would ever have any negitive effect on the installation.
 
Very nice work - very nice


My only observation is how did you handle the asbestos lining of the old panel?

When you guys run onto this do you just put on a dust mask or a respirator and tear it out?
 
jimmyglen said:
Very nice work - very nice


My only observation is how did you handle the asbestos lining of the old panel?

When you guys run onto this do you just put on a dust mask or a respirator and tear it out?
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Some questions are better left unasked. :wink:
 
mdshunk said:
When I do service upgrades, the old panels are often on the front porch with the old A base meter and both circuits to the home. When I relocate the panel and meter to a more appropriate location, I refeed the two K&T circuits on the porch with a 4-square and bring each K&T conductor into the box through a plastic 1/2" knockout bushing. This is the same bushing that 220/221 favors in a larger size for all his cables.
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You just run it through a bushed opening without a clamp to secure the loom?

Do you feel the 'bushing' has to be plastic in order to be compliant?

Wouldn't the loom protecting the conductor as it enters the enclosure serve the same purpose as a plastic 'bushing'?

If he installed a plastic bushing with each 2-screw connector would that be satisfactory?

I don't understand your logic on this.
 
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ike5547 said:
I don't understand your logic on this.
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It's not my logic. It's just following the code, the way I see it. Plus, it's a darned near identical copy of how K&T was brought into metal enclosures back in the day.
 
mdshunk said:
It's not my logic. It's just following the code, the way I see it. Plus, it's a darned near identical copy of how K&T was brought into metal enclosures back in the day.
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Does a material or fitting have to be labeled exclusively as a bushing in order to provide a bushed opening? I don't think so. Personal opinion of course.
 
ike5547 said:
Does a material or fitting have to be labeled exclusively as a bushing in order to provide a bushed opening? I don't think so. Personal opinion of course.
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I don't think so either. It is just typical to use a porcelain or plastic Federal bushing in my observation of vintage and modern installs.
 
220/221 said:
K&T thru seperate openings of metalic boxes huh?
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That's what it says, like it or not. Each conductor through a seperate bushed opening, just like they do with the wall boxes. I guess in the case of the wall box, the internal loom clamps bush the opening.
 
mdshunk said:
I don't think so either. It is just typical to use a porcelain or plastic Federal bushing in my observation of vintage and modern installs.
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I work in San Francisco where we are forced to deal with a lot of K&T. It is far more typical to see what the OP did over here.
 
ike5547 said:
It is far more typical to see what the OP did over here.
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So what you typically observe doesn't square with the code. No problem with me. I'm thousands of miles away. :grin:

I understand that SanFran was one area that had K&T installed clear up into the early 70's. Weird.
 
On the rare occaision that I have to energize K&T, it is a residential/nm job where I would be using plastic boxes anyway....so I am good running them in the same hole.....right??
 
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