Improper Use of Fittings

[allenwayne]

Bravo BOB,I also would rather use the set up over an inferior ul listed fitting.

 

[peter d]

I'm at a loss to see the issue here. Most of these installations would include an EGC due to the flex, as this type of connection is often made to mechanical equipment and transformers.

 

[joe tedesco]

Keep and open mind

Keep and open mind

Joe Tedesco,

I have to say I agree with you 100%

I have come across this type of junction many times in the field.( to be honest before I knew better I did the same thing )

In short, you stated key points of why that picture is a violation. I think that many in the field still do this because the proper fittings are more expensive and less readily available.

I am almost positive that those that join different raceways in this manner are unaware of the possible hazards involved.

ibew441dc

Let's just say that we are in the minority here, and that some feel that they can mix and match listed fittings anyway they want in spite of 110.2!

Comments about NEMA, not being an authoritative source are hilarious, and the members of the NEMA companies will agree with us, and others here who are aware of the poor workmanship.

The issue is one clearly defined - use the proper fittings for the purpose intended.

Who from the Inspection Community agrees with the opposition here?

Question:

Can anyone show us the text and images and training guides in the materials from the union and non-union shops that teach the methods shown in the picture?

 

[roger]

Question:

Can anyone show us the text and images and training guides in the materials from the union and non-union shops that teach the methods shown in the picture?

Joe, can you show us the text and images and training guides in the materials from the union and non-union shops that teach the methods shown in the picture are wrong?


Roger

 

[iwire]

Comments about NEMA, not being an authoritative source are hilarious,

Now that is not what I said at all.

What I said is that NEMA has no authority to make rules that I have to follow.

They can make recommendations and most times those recommendations are to buy more specialized items made by the members of NEMA.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of NEMA is sales and marketing.

 

[joe tedesco]

Joe, can you show us the text and images and training guides in the materials from the union and non-union shops that teach the methods shown in the picture are wrong?


Roger

No, you must explain the function and purpose of the locknuts here, the purpose and use of a threaded RMC coupling, and the use of each as intended by UL!

You know clearly that the picture shows the WRONG WAY to use the fittings!

 

[tkb]

So would mounting a relay in a junction box also be a UL voilation.

Done everyday also.

 

[George Stolz]

Let's just say that we are in the minority here, and that some feel that they can mix and match listed fittings anyway they want in spite of 110.2!

Joe, why do you believe it is not acceptable to the AHJ?

Can anyone show us the text and images and training guides in the materials from the union and non-union shops that teach the methods shown in the picture?

I would say the burden of proof is upon you, a code or listing requirement must be cited to fail an installation.

I couldn't get your link to work.

You know clearly that the picture shows the WRONG WAY to use the fittings!

No, I don't. I've seen similar installations inspected and passed by qualified inspectors, who were there almost exclusively to inspect the raceway and equipment connected to it. I do not see this as a foregone conclusion, you will have to provide proof to convince me.

"Facts are important and saved me. I could trust a fact, and always cross-examined an assertion."
-Michael Faraday

 

[joe tedesco]

Proof?

You have to be kidding me, what does 110.3(B) mean to you?

You have to join the NEMA Forum to get that link to work. Do that and see the information prepared to provide some proper methods of installing listed fittings.

How come we always hear from the same bunch of people on this board, who are all playing with the words and have opinions of their own, which they are entitiled too, as I do.

George, learniing means keeping an open mind, and when we do so something may fall into it to clear up the cobwebs.

Any installation, like the one above is WRONG, anywhere, and at anytime even when approved they are all still wrong too!

Stop fighting the issue, the products are misused!!

 

[roger]

Joe, if it will make you happy, I'll admit that I would save the locknut for later, in other words I'd just use the EMT Connector, Coupling, and Flex Connector with no locknut(s).

I can't find anything that would prohibit this even considering 110.3 or UL information on its own.

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I would think more inspectors would pass this installation than would not, and even go as far as to say most would not even question it.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Here is a generator replacement I did last March.

It was inspected and as this was the only thing he came to see I think he looked the job over.

By the way, the 'gold' struts where just some junk I used while I waited for the proper unistrut brackets.

 

[iwire]

Proof?

You have to be kidding me, what does 110.3(B) mean to you? !!

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

You have yet to show us anything included in the listing or labeling of couplings or connectors that prohibits this practice.

All UL has said is they have not investigated the combination.

 

[infinity]

I'm still baffled as to how I'm supposed to only use a transition fitting that no one makes.

 

[iwire]

I'm still baffled as to how I'm supposed to only use a transition fitting that no one makes.

A big ugly J-box that will be in the way and serve no purpose.

 

[George Stolz]

Proof?

You have to be kidding me, what does 110.3(B) mean to you?

The instructions that come with an FMC connector probably don't specifically tell me that I can drill a hole in a box and install the connector in it. Since it's not specifically mentioned in the instructions then it's a violation of 110.3(B) to do so?

You have to join the NEMA Forum to get that link to work.

Well, then I invite you to bring your evidence here and post it, because I have no desire to go join that forum. I have too many hobbies as it is.

How come we always hear from the same bunch of people on this board, who are all playing with the words and have opinions of their own, which they are entitiled too, as I do.

I welcome your opinion. I welcome understanding the root of it. I am not obliged to simply accept it as my own because you said so.

Any installation, like the one above is WRONG, anywhere, and at anytime even when approved they are all still wrong too!

That is an assertion. Please provide me with the proof that I can understand why you believe this to be fact.

Thanks,

 

[joe tedesco]

http://forums.nema.org/wb/upload/2003-1-Field-Rep-Training-FittingsInstall.ppt

Download this file for the information.

 

[George Stolz]

At eight megabytes, I'll probably be done downloading that next week.

Got anything smaller? I can be lured with just words, pictures aren't necessary.

 

[iwire]

At eight megabytes, I'll probably be done downloading that next week.

Joe is probably walking down a street downloading that in mere seconds....he has all the cool toys.

 

[roger]

Got anything smaller? I can be lured with just words, pictures aren't necessary.

You mean you really did look at Playboy for the articles!!!!:grin: :grin: :grin:

Roger

 

[ryan_618]

I have installed it many times, and i have passed it on inspections many times. I will continue to do so.