Inspector says my zigzagged vanity wires have to be in a box

[James L]

I can see them doing this for the Final but not a rough inspection. Has this inspector ever been an electrician?

Here in Kansas City, they just required on every single piece of wire that's stubbed out. That way they don't have to try to keep track of what's acceptable and what isn't. They'll usually make an exception for stuff that's the stuff through a floor for a kitchen island, just because that's kind of obvious.

And also, I don't think I've ever met a KCMO inspector that had field experience in any trade. Most of them started by doing data entry over at City Hall, or maybe Manning a shovel for the Water Works Department. They just wanted to do something different and got a different city job than what they had before

 

[Buck Parrish]

I can certainly see requiring a box for vanity light. I've seen way too many that are stubbed through the sheetrock, then a swivel bracket mounted with Zip-its.

If I was an inspector, I would tell people that I'm not buying that nonsense. I would want to see a rough in box fixed in place or I wouldn't pass it

I've never had a box like that fail.. Also If you're telling an electrician what type of box they can use. Wouldn't you need a code reference.
The boxes are UL approoved for that purpose.
I'll give you an example. If you install a TapCon and you don't know what you're doing. It probably won't hold either.

 

[James L]

I've never had a box like that fail.. Also If you're telling an electrician what type of box they can use. Wouldn't you need a code reference.
The boxes are UL approoved for that purpose.
I'll give you an example. If you install a TapCon and you don't know what you're doing. It probably won't hold either.

They don't need any code reference if they have a written amendment. That's what they require here, and I think it's a good idea. I think they just got sick and tired of hacks installing a swivel bracket on to the drywall with no box.

I think they don't require it actually mounted, but they want to make sure whoever is wiring the place is very well aware that there needs to be a box on the finish

I just went to fix one about 2 weeks ago they had the fixture screwed to the drywall. Apparently the guy thought the inspector wouldn't pull the fixture off and on the final inspection, but he did

 

[LarryFine]

What would a dishwasher cable require?

 

[James L]

What would a dishwasher cable require?

around here, it would require a single gang box if it was a piece of NM stubbed out of the drywall. But guys here don't do that. We put a half switched receptacle under the sink that covers both the garbage disposal and the dishwasher.

Another one, however, is the current use of slim LED panels that get clipped into the drywall. Guys will just roll up wires on the rough-in and then when they cut the light in they will install the junction box and the light. But it's required to have some kind of a box on those stubbed wires on the rough-in. So guys will just put the end of The Wire into a single gang box. I think it's easier just to install the driver box

 

[Buck Parrish]

What would a dishwasher cable require?

Thanks for asking. He said that was alright with cat flex. His concern is the boxes.
He thinks the NEC says " No Renovation boxes allowed on new construction"
I told him to show me in the NEC or in local amendments. He got mad.

 

[Buck Parrish]

They don't need any code reference if they have a written amendment. That's what they require here, and I think it's a good idea. I think they just got sick and tired of hacks installing a swivel bracket on to the drywall with no box.

I think they don't require it actually mounted, but they want to make sure whoever is wiring the place is very well aware that there needs to be a box on the finish

I just went to fix one about 2 weeks ago they had the fixture screwed to the drywall. Apparently the guy thought the inspector wouldn't pull the fixture off and on the final inspection, but he did

They don't have awritten amendment. I asked for it. He thinks it's in the NEC.
If the material is made to use a certain way. It doesn't matter what it is. You can not protect against some one not knowing what they're doing.
The boxes are UL approoved for that purpose.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Can any one show me where in the NEC it says pop in boxes are not allowed in new construction ?
I asked the inspector for a code refetence. He could not give me one.
He said I have to proove in right.

 

[suemarkp]

What do you think the inspector wants to see on a rough in? Sizing and fusing. Circuits in the correct places. Cables properly secured and supported? How can he do the last item that if the boxes are not in place?

I know you want some wiggle room to position things in the proper place. Are there unknowns as to what the light fixture will be or exactly where it is going to go? Need to find out what the inspector wants to see. The NEC doesn't define that. Every locality is different.

 

[James L]

Can any one show me where in the NEC it says pop in boxes are not allowed in new construction ?
I asked the inspector for a code refetence. He could not give me one.
He said I have to proove in right.

What year code are you on?

 

[James L]

Cables properly secured and supported? How can he do the last item that if the boxes are not in place?

Exactly. There's no isdue with the box type, but how can it be known the canle is gonne be secured within the appropriate parameters?

 

[Dell3c]

Thanks for asking. He said that was alright with cat flex. His concern is the boxes.
He thinks the NEC says " No Renovation boxes allowed on new construction"
I told him to show me in the NEC or in local amendments. He got mad.

You know Buck,.. Come to think of it, I do remember hearing that same song, which he called it (old work boxes) installed in new construction, from a Code Enforcement Official -MANY- years ago, State of North Carolina.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I can certainly see requiring a box for vanity light. I've seen way too many that are stubbed through the sheetrock, then a swivel bracket mounted with Zip-its.

If I was an inspector, I would tell people that I'm not buying that nonsense. I would want to see a rough in box fixed in place or I wouldn't pass it

We're not talking about not using a box. We're talking about using a UL approoved box that was specifically approved for that purpose. If you don't know how to use it. You may not be cut out for this work. Not you, but they.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I had the City of Atlanta want that, but he said it just had to be on the end of the wire, didn’t have to be fastened.

If your goal is safety then that doesn't make any sense, at all.

 

[480sparky]

Wait until you wire a veneer log cabin. Most boxes cannot go in until trim. I'd like to see the expector on that one.

 

[Buck Parrish]

What are zigzagged wires?

Above islands and vanity's . We zigzag the wires in the wall or ceiling so after the sheet rock goes up. The wires will be easy to grab when we cut a UL approved box in for mounting the light.
Because the islands get pushed this or that way and vanities we don't know what type of light or how many some times one between two sinks, some times two then some times three lights.

 

[480sparky]

Above islands and vanity's . We zigzag the wires in the wall or ceiling so after the sheet rock goes up. The wires will be easy to grab when we cut a UL approved box in for mounting the light.
Because the islands get pushed this or that way and vanities we don't know what type of light or how many some times one between two sinks, some times two then some times three lights.

Same way HO's never know how big their mirror / medicine cabinet will be during rough-in. Even if they do, it will change over the next 4 weeks.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Wait until you wire a veneer log cabin. Most boxes cannot go in until trim. I'd like to see the expector on that one.

Yep, he would be disturbed.

 

[Buck Parrish]

So my main question to all is . "Does the NEC specifically indicate that pop-in or renovation boxes can not be used on new construction" ?
The inspector said that I need to prove to him that it does not specifically say that. Because he thinks it does.

 

[Buck Parrish]

You know Buck,.. Come to think of it, I do remember hearing that same song, which he called it (old work boxes) installed in new construction, from a Code Enforcement Official -MANY- years ago, State of North Carolina.

I don't remember .Was it in Carrboro ? Because they have been a little naïve in regards to electrical.