inspectors

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In some cases that may be true (there are just as many bad electricians as there are bad inspectors), but the reason you need to know the code is so that you can install this stuff safely and not get your butt sued and put you in the poor house, or worse kill some innocent bystanders. If every EC put in code compliant installations, there would be no need for inspections other than for homeowners. I can see why some have beefs about inspectors, and your point is well taken, but imo just slightly off the mark.
 
I did not imply that all inspectors are bad. My point is that "rejection rates", in order to be accurate must take into account when the inspector issued the rejection for no good cause and when the work was performed by non-electricians.

There is no proof that deviating from the NEC always results in fire and loss of life. Many violations discovered by inspectors have no bearing at all upon life safety. However, they are violations nonetheless and should not be tolerated.
 
Fire Alarm said:
I did not imply that all inspectors are bad. My point is that "rejection rates", in order to be accurate must take into account when the inspector issued the rejection for no good cause and when the work was performed by non-electricians.

There is no proof that deviating from the NEC always results in fire and loss of life. Many violations discovered by inspectors have no bearing at all upon life safety. However, they are violations nonetheless and should not be tolerated.
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I am not sure what your name is so I will say FA.


It seems that "rejection rates" bothers you. How about rejections with a code section citation.

I would be willing to bet all of your money that Bryan (Florida) makes all of his formal "rejections" with a very specific code section.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I am not sure what your name is so I will say FA.


It seems that "rejection rates" bothers you. How about rejections with a code section citation.

I would be willing to bet all of your money that Bryan (Florida) makes all of his formal "rejections" with a very specific code section.
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The fact that you're betting with *my* money is a little disconcerting. :smile:
I don't doubt for a minute that Bryan is a professional in every sense. However, since my post was very clear that it did not apply to professional inspectors, the only people who would take my post as a personal attack are those who do not view themselves in that manner.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
How about rejections with a code section citation..
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if they put in the code section it doesnt bother me.its when they say well its the way i want it sometimes do.
example:here if the meter and panel are not back to back we have to put the disconnect outside the house.we use a meter/main breaker combo with 4 wire ser to a mlo panel.in a county north of me the inspector wants the inside panel to have a main in it too.i dont arguee just do it.
 
Fire Alarm said:
The fact that you're betting with *my* money is a little disconcerting. :smile:
I don't doubt for a minute that Bryan is a professional in every sense. However, since my post was very clear that it did not apply to professional inspectors, the only people who would take my post as a personal attack are those who do not view themselves in that manner.
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Touche! (I think that is the spelling).
I missed the part about the "professionals"



I am glad you caught that, I am not a betting man, unless it is someone else's money.;)
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Touche! (I think that is the spelling).
I missed the part about the "professionals"



I am glad you caught that, I am not a betting man, unless it is someone else's money.;)
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For the sake of my posting, where I say "many fine inspectors" you may substitute the word "professional". :smile:

FWIW, I have never, in my 30 years as an electrical contractor, received a correction notice that included any citations to any code. They normally say "add an outlet to north wall" or "put more straps on conduit".

It's one thing to perform code compliant installations, but you must have a thorough knowledge of the code to defend yourself against the Inspector.

Seriously, I ask you Inspectors on this forum, have you never known inspectors whom you knew to be incompetent?
 
Fire Alarm said:
Seriously, I ask you Inspectors on this forum, have you never known inspectors whom you knew to be incompetent?
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I have been in the Electrical trade for 20 years an Electrician for 15 years out of those 20 and now an Inspector for 10 years beyond the previous. Are you asking.... have I known Inspectors who have been and are incompetent?
 
dcspector said:
I have been in the Electrical trade for 20 years an Electrician for 15 years out of those 20 and now an Inspector for 10 years beyond the previous. Are you asking.... have I known Inspectors who have been and are incompetent?
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Perhaps my question was unclear, but yes, have you ever known an incompetent inspector?
 
Fire Alarm said:
Perhaps my question was unclear, but yes, have you ever known an incompetent inspector?
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Just a guess but I think he was just trying to point out that the answer to that question is obvious. :grin:
 
Fire Alarm said:
Perhaps my question was unclear, but yes, have you ever known an incompetent inspector?
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Thanks all and a resounding "YES"!!!.....I am surrounded by them. They do not study, take classes, no trade or field experience. etc....thats why they say things "thats not the way I like to see it" because they don't know the flipin NEC or the trade.... I cite and I put down the specific Article number. How can one Inspect a tradesman when the one inspecting the tradesman has never been a tradesman...wordy but true.....huh?
 
What's a Code book ??

What's a Code book ??

I would love to just give Code reference :grin:
perhaps the "electricians" in this rual county would then buy a Code book .
(90% of them wire by habit & rejection notice, not by code)
 
Jim,
Several factors are to blame for the low passing rates. Low wages and untrained electricans are two big factors. In my area I get 3 or 4 homeowner permits a day, thoes almost never pass on the first trip. I went to a homeowner permit for a service upgrade and rewire. This was the thrid trip to this house, the first trip I failed the job and requested a meeting with the homeowner and the person performing the work. The second trip I met with the homeowner and a "commercial electrican" who was "related to the homeowner". I walked the project with them and had a 18 item violation list.
That was in August of 07. On Friday I found 12 violations all created by trying to correct the original list. I find that over 50% of the electricans working in my area dont even own a code book. When I dissaprove a project I site the NEC section that has been violated, I usually get a call the next day asking what I ment by 210.52, 312.5(C) or 410.8 (D). A lot of EC's use the inspectors as punch-out men to get a list of problems. We have been instructed that if a project has 5 or more violations we are to give a result of "not ready" and place a re-inspection fee on the project, this is helping some. I try to help contractors that violate the same code section over and over but sometimes no matter how many times I explain the violation they just dont understand the concepts. So to conclude this post I think uneducated (on the NEC), untrained, uncaring electricans are the majior cause of the high failing rate we have here in Tampa. I am all about education I teach 4th year apprenticeship for the IEC, write and instruct CEU's for the ECF. The oppertinuity to learn is available if the contractors really cared about the trade.
 
jrannis said:
I agree its hard to get failed on a commercial\ Industrial project if you follow the prints and properly support your conduit.
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Yes, your absolutely right.It is very hard to fail a Commercial\Industrial project. I mean what do we need to know?All of our Code books only contain Art.358.I am very fortunate that i have the same inspector on this Bio-Reactor project that i had on the last Water Treatment Plant. Cause,when he shows up to inspect the "Prints". He knows that my crew can securely fasten EMT in place at least every 3m and within 900mm of each outlet box,junction box,device box,cabinet,conduit body,or other tubing termination so effectively it would make your head spin. He doesn't even venture past the Plans table. :grin:
 
nyerinfl said:
I'm just curious what you did to fix this?
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Sorry, I missed this earlier. I "fixed" it by explanation to the gc about the error on the inspector's part. He "removed" the laundry tray until the final inspection had passed. After that I have no idea about the condition of the plumbing fixtures at that dwelling, as I have very little training in the plumbing field:grin: :grin:

As far as "fixing" the other item- the gec properly connected to the water pipe electrode, I went over his head to no avail. Got some mumbled mumbo jumbo from the chief inspector, and a "promise" to look into it. That, according to local scuttlebutt means don't hold your breath waiting for an official determination on the issue. So in order to pass a final on that job, I spent about 3 hours, and 85 dollars for "solid" #4 bare copper (also stated by same inspector as "mandated by code " for gec's) to run a replacement gec thru the customer's attic, across the entire house, down the exterior again to the opposite corner where the city water pipe first comes up and attach it there. So now the customer has an extended lightning rod running thru the attic. The original spot was about two feet off to the side of the exterior disco , and not a danger to the dwelling as the new one potentially is.. Mr "FA" from California is completely correct in his post about why the code is important to know.
 
Karl H said:
Yes, your absolutely right.It is very hard to fail a Commercial\Industrial project. I mean what do we need to know?All of our Code books only contain Art.358.I am very fortunate that i have the same inspector on this Bio-Reactor project that i had on the last Water Treatment Plant. Cause,when he shows up to inspect the "Prints". He knows that my crew can securely fasten EMT in place at least every 3m and within 900mm of each outlet box,junction box,device box,cabinet,conduit body,or other tubing termination so effectively it would make your head spin. He doesn't even venture past the Plans table. :grin:
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What if you met him at the plans table and said: "I'm here to walk around with you. I've noticed you haven't been walking the site on your last few trips. Come on, I'll show you what the fella's are doing?"..:smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
What if you met him at the plans table and said: "I'm here to walk around with you. I've noticed you haven't been walking the site on your last few trips. Come on, I'll show you what the fella's are doing?"..:smile:
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You know i should do that, i'd walk with him and find my crew having debates about the myth that there were other articles in the Code Book other than 358.Like 310.16,500,513,514,515,517,etc. I'd walk by with the inspector and say,"Now fella's stop the crazy talk the P.E. is all knowing,He will lead us!::D
 
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