Installing windows and doors

[LarryFine]

So what do you do when you get threatining letters from the gc to start work or get lost?

Introduce him to the electrical inspector. Let them hash it out.

How would the GC justify demanding you wire non-compliantly?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Even with no roof?

Even with no roof, in fact many a time I have to warn the EC not to get his wires in the tight parts of the truss since the roof hasn't been loaded yet.

You also have to remember that we may have 330 working days a year around here. I've heard that in other areas you work from the outside in.

Here 50 degrees is cold and rain is always used with "a chance of....":grin:

 

[iwire]

I must live in Utopia. I don't start wiring (except for the service, because I want to pick where it goes) until the HVAC and plumbing are roughed in.

You must be living there.

As you know I work commercial jobs and we (the electricians) are the often one of the first trades on the job, as soon as the sites graded we are doing underground.

As soon as there is steel overhead we are running conduit and cables on it.

If it goes our way we will have all our home runs pulled before a single interior wall is even layed out.

In commercial work there is no waiting for the other trades to be done, we all have to do it at the same time.

 

[infinity]

You must be living there.

As you know I work commercial jobs and we (the electricians) are the often one of the first trades on the job, as soon as the sites graded we are doing underground.

As soon as there is steel overhead we are running conduit and cables on it.

If it goes our way we will have all our home runs pulled before a single interior wall is even layed out.

In commercial work there is no waiting for the other trades to be done, we all have to do it at the same time.

And think of a 50 story building. Many times the first floors are complete before the building is even topped out. Forget about windows and doors, the thing might not even have the top steel erected to install a roof when the lower floors are finished.

 

[peter d]

Anyone else feel this thread is now deep into dead horse territory? Just wondering, because I sure do.

 

[LarryFine]

Anyone else feel this thread is now deep into dead horse territory?

In this forum? No!

 

[peter d]

In this forum? No!

Good point.

It's just a non-issue. Buildings are routinely wired all across the country without being completely enclosed and weather tight. Other than the issue of copper theft, there is no reason why a building has to be closed in to be wired.

 

[brian john]

Bid UF next time.

When I was an apprentice the guy I worked with got a deal on some UF, he pulled all the baseboard heaters and stats in UF. Guess who was elected to terminate it. Older UF was a chore, the new stuff I have seen seems thinner?

 

[JohnE]

Anyone else feel this thread is now deep into dead horse territory? Just wondering, because I sure do.

Let me beat it a little more.

I called for a service inspection on a larger house last fall. The inspector showed up and approved the service.

He then says "you're roughing the house and you are not supposed to until it is sided." (Roof is on, windows and doors installed, and housewrapped with the seams taped)

I say, "with all due respect, where is that stated?"

He: "It's not in our book, it's in the building code."

Me: "I've been all through the building code and I can't find it"

He: "I'll check, but can't really fight the department"

Me: "Please get me an article number"

He: "OK"

He comes back with an article on not insulating a wall until it is sided to keep water out. I could get the exact wording, but you get the idea.

Me: "That has nothing to do with the wiring of a house"

He: "That's what the building department is hanging their hat on"

We decide that I don't call for a wiring inspection until it is sided. No harm since they can't get a rough building inspection until that point anyway. And it didn't affect my payment schedule.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I agree, copper theft is reason enough alone not to install wiring without the building being secure.

And you think a locked door stops a thief ?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

We work directly for the building contractor in-house. When we are not doing electric we are helping with the carpentry. The job is ready to go we are just not allowed to proceed. As far as theft we keep the uninstalled wire after each day is over and the neighborhoods do not usual see any theft of installed wire.

are you in city of naples or collier county

 

[LarryFine]

When I was an apprentice the guy I worked with got a deal on some UF, he pulled all the baseboard heaters and stats in UF. Guess who was elected to terminate it. Older UF was a chore, the new stuff I have seen seems thinner?

Don't kill anyone just yet. The Klein NM strippers work great on UF.

 

[LarryFine]

And you think a locked door stops a thief ?

An honest thief, yes.

 

[davedottcom]

My inspector will not let us pull wire until all the outside windows and doors are installed. Is there somewhere in the Code or a change that gives him the authority to do this.

Will they let you "mark out" the house, list all of the circuits, mount all the sw, recp, c.fan boxes & recessed cans, drill all your holes, take measurements for all of the "Heavy" wire Home-runs, nailplates, install any misc. conduit runs, install the service, do a "pre-wire" walk-through with the owner while you are waiting for the doors & windows?
The actual wiring is only about 1/3 of the work.
I Never start wiring until ALL of those things are 100% completed. Especially the pre-wire walk through. I always tell them, this is your LAST chance to make any changes! :grin:

There's a lot to do without pulling any wire! :wink:

I always hated wiring before the doors & windows were installed mostly because they were all laying around in my way!

 

[K8MHZ]

If there is a roof on the job and the climate does not present a damp issue I don't think there is a darn thing he has to say.
110.11 Deteriorating Agents
So again unless there is and issue relating to dampness. Window's and doors will not prevent coorosion from vapors. I can understand not having a panels bus installed untill after drywall. I do that anyway. That same Inspector could use the issue of temperature in Arizona in the summer. What then you're gonna tell the GC he cant wire the place untill the AC is on.

I'd tell that guy to go pound sand.

It gets close to 60 degrees C. in Arizona? I sure hope it's a 'dry heat'. :grin:

 

[jflynn]

Good point.

Buildings are routinely wired all across the country without being completely enclosed and weather tight.

I have to agree with that,if you are not off and running as as an E.C you get the classic line "your behind".
On the other hand I have to wonder how many of us would wire our own homes,without windows or doors in-I myself would not....

 

[JohnE]

On the other hand I have to wonder how many of us would wire our own homes,without windows or doors in-I myself would not....

I would have no problem doing so in my own home.

 

[peter d]

And you think a locked door stops a thief ?

It makes it more difficult than a wide open framed opening for a door. :roll:

 

[peter d]

Originally Posted by peter d
On the other hand I have to wonder how many of us would wire our own homes,without windows or doors in-I myself would not....

Someone messed up their quotes. I never said that.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have wired hundreds of homes this way and see no problem.I would want the roof to be papered in first.What differance will windows make in FL ? They will be open even if they are in.All this inspector is doing is slowing down the job.Theft is not his buisness.Even after house is finished windows might be open.