interlockit kits

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jwelectric said:
I have two, 5000, 7500 and neither one has one. Is this something new? Mine are about 10 years old.
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Maybe i don't know what a "cracker box" is. I thought you were describing a small self contained engine-generator with CBs, receptacles. I thought that since you said you were plugging in extension cords. If so, both have a voltage regulator. You may not recognize it as such, but each has one. If I am in error about "cracker box" then please - Define "cracker box".

ice
 
jwelectric said:
I just left a room full of folks that disagree with your statement that the NTRL has enforcement abilities through 110.3(B)
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Where does their authority to enfoce come from? How can they come on to my property to enforce? What can they do to make me comply?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Where does their authority to enfoce come from? How can they come on to my property to enforce? What can they do to make me comply?
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I would say that depends on where the property is and what is is used for. If the property is a business then OSHA would enforce the requirements that electrical devices carry a NRTL approval IMO.

Just reread the post. I don't think NRTL has any enforcement jurisdiction either. They can do little more than accept or reject an item. It is up to the AHJ for enforcement.
 
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Not trying to get into any kind of match with anyone but if you are under the ICC building codes then any equipment used in a residential setting must be listed. If it is listed then it must be installed according to any instructions included with the listing such as FTCN.

Now we can use any excuse we want to circumvent the codes but the liability will fall on those who do not follow the codes.
 
jwelectric said:
Not trying to get into any kind of match with anyone but if you are under the ICC building codes then any equipment used in a residential setting must be listed. If it is listed then it must be installed according to any instructions included with the listing such as FTCN.

Now we can use any excuse we want to circumvent the codes but the liability will fall on those who do not follow the codes.
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But that is not enforcement by the NRTL...that is enforcement by the code adopting authority.
Does the ICC code really say any equipment used in a residential setting must be listed, or does it say installed. If it actually says used, it is totally unenforceable and likely not valid when adopted by a unit of government...that is if someone would spend the time and money necessary for court challenge.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
But that is not enforcement by the NRTL...that is enforcement by the code adopting authority.
Does the ICC code really say any equipment used in a residential setting must be listed, or does it say installed. If it actually says used, it is totally unenforceable and likely not valid when adopted by a unit of government...that is if someone would spend the time and money necessary for court challenge.
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Well Don I ani't too sure about the word "used" but I do think it can be found somewhere in that section

E3403.3 Listing and labeling.
Electrical materials, components, devices, fixtures and equipment shall be listed for the application, shall bear the label of an approved agency and shall be installed, and used, or both, in accordance with the manufacturer?s installation instructions.
 
jwelectric said:
Well Don I ani't too sure about the word "used" but I do think it can be found somewhere in that section

E3403.3 Listing and labeling.
Electrical materials, components, devices, fixtures and equipment shall be listed for the application, shall bear the label of an approved agency and shall be installed, and used, or both, in accordance with the manufacturer?s installation instructions.
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That is much broader than 110.3(B) and does seem to require you to use only listed products....I really doubt that would stand up to a court challenge. Is there something else in the ICC that would make the requirement for listed products only apply to equipment that is installed? A requirement in a building code to require me to buy and used a listed cord and plug connected appliance would likely exceed the scope statement for that code.

That being said, what is the safety hazard if you connect a portable generator as a non-SDS system? ...other than the fact that you would trip the GFCI on the generator if you make the house connection via a GFCI protected receptacle on the generator.

For our area the ICC code does not apply to electrical as the city codes say that only the NEC applies to electrical installations, how ever, if a listed generator would be used, then the listing instruction to use a transfer device that switches the grounded conductor would be a 110.3(B) instruction and would act to prohibit the use of the interlock kit that is the real subject of this thread. There is nothing that would require me to use a listed portable generator and if I don't use a listed one, I don't have to switch the grounded conductor.

That still does not solve the issue of the use of interlock kits, because, as I said in my first post, the code rule requires the use of "transfer equipment" and the interlock kit is not listed as transfer equipment. I think there is room for a code change here to clearly permit the use of the interlock kits. The do provide the functionality of transfer equipment in cases where non-SDS standby power is permitted.
 
Sorry to revive this a little late, but...

qcroanoke said:
Thanks, but I knew about this site. I was hoping to find one that wasn't $149.95. :eek:(
Where ya been NHfire? haven't see you in a while.
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This thread (and the bad weather out east) got me going, so I installed one on my house.

3F5A6F8C-CB62-4B8D-BA73-785FA8F30B6B-1381-000001BD412CF522.jpg


Eat your heart out interlock, this one's $70 for two chunks of metal, a template and three screws from the factory. ;)
 
George Stolz said:
Sorry to revive this a little late, but...

This thread (and the bad weather out east) got me going, so I installed one on my house.

Eat your heart out interlock, this one's $70 for two chunks of metal, a template and three screws from the factory. ;)
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Nice interlock kit George but "is it UL listed for use by the mfr. with that panel" seems to be the general trend of this thread. Some inspectors I've been talking with regarding these kits are asking other questions like "Does drilling out the panel cover have any affect on the functionability and integretity of the panel cover ?"; "How do you secure the 30 amp generator breaker so that it's can't be easily removed?"; "If you're using a cable tie will it become dried out and brittle over time and lose it's effectiveness ?"; "If you shut the main breaker off is it really off or do you pull the meter as well ?"; "Does the homeowner have the capability of pulling the meter ?"; "What if the meter enclosure is locked ?"

IF is only a two letter word but it's one of the biggest words in the English language. If we install transfer equipment (manual or automatic) between the meter and the main breaker the question can be asked "What if it fails ?"
 
iwire said:
The interlock in George's picture is a Square D accessory for Square D panels. I have installed one just like it.
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I would presume that it's UL listed by the mfr for use with that panel but I don't see any markings or labeling as such (as long as we're all nit-picking about this ):roll:
 
Goldstar,

Yeah, I realize that the concern is Brand X kits in a Brand Y panel, but another thought that crossed my mind when I originally saw this thread; wondering what the manufacturer would charge for the same item - in this case, less than half.

I understand that you are referring to a Brand X interlock kit, but I am going to address the issues you presented with what I saw in the kit that Square D provided, with the thought of giving people something to think about when they are working with the brand X kits.

goldstar said:
Nice interlock kit George but "is it UL listed for use by the mfr. with that panel" seems to be the general trend of this thread.
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I saw nothing in the panel permitting the use of the kit I installed. The Square D kit I installed did not claim to be listed for use in my panel. Look for yourself here.

Some inspectors I've been talking with regarding these kits are asking other questions like "Does drilling out the panel cover have any affect on the functionability and integretity of the panel cover ?";
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The factory solution in this instance required drilling the panel cover.

"How do you secure the 30 amp generator breaker so that it's can't be easily removed?";
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The factory solution in this case is a cheesy metal strap that was bent (crushed) when I received it. It would take little effort at all to swing the "door" out of place and remove the 30A breaker.

"If you're using a cable tie will it become dried out and brittle over time and lose it's effectiveness ?";
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Since the factory used metal, that could be a valid complaint.

"If you shut the main breaker off is it really off or do you pull the meter as well ?";
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If the inspector does not trust circuit breakers to perform their intended purpose (assuming we're not talking about a physically seized old breaker), then I would report that stupid question to his boss. :D

"Does the homeowner have the capability of pulling the meter ?"; "What if the meter enclosure is locked ?"
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None of the interlock kits I've seen on their site required pulling the meter, that would make their product a little pointless, wouldn't it? :huh:
 
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