Is this a kitchen counter?

Status
Not open for further replies.
crossman said:
So, Larry, I am assuming by your commentary that you would have no problem hiding the shelf from the inspector and then put it back when he is gone?
Click to expand...
Not to pick on you alone but what a perspective. I think Larry seems to be the only one who appreciates the irony and spelled it out.

Some are happy that it was all worked out, but step back a moment and ask yourself what was really worked out? The inspector obviously did not change his mind as he still thinks there is a problem. He has not learned why the shelf was not a problem, he has only learned that you will play hardball. He still needs to be exorcised. Now maybe he has a bone to pick with you because you threatened to go over his head ("you" as a general term, not crossman in particular).

If he is really right about there being a problem, how was this any better of a work-around of the rules than removing the shelf? Part of the answer is that the shelf was never a problem. This is the lesson he should have learned. If he is too irrational to learn this lesson, one legal alternative was to threaten an appeal. Another legal alternative was to remove the shelf.

Why would you have to hide the shelf? Just tell him flat out the homeowner did not want a shelf with a receptacle and would rather have it removed. Show me where the electrician is violating any code in that case.

The bottom line is, the inspector still thinks you are violating the rules, so "ethically speaking", you are still violating the rules. The inspector did not want to go through the trouble of forcing you to "do it correctly".

Still feel ethically cleansed?:rolleyes:

So like I said before:
mivey said:
If you tell me you have never had to work around an irrational person by finding another way to skin a cat, I will tell you that you need to get out more.

If you tell me you have never found another means to get something done, and get around one rule without breaking the other rules, then I will out-right call you confused, or less than honest.
Click to expand...
 
crossman said:
So, Larry, I am assuming by your commentary that you would have no problem hiding the shelf from the inspector and then put it back when he is gone?
Click to expand...
Au contraire, mon ami! No, exactly the opposite. I agree with your last post.
The EI is only human, and when you deceive a typical human, paybacks can be hell, precisely because the inspector is not a god.
Click to expand...
Yes, but like the police and other public offices and services, inspectors are expected to behave in a professional and non-emotional level. If proven wrong, I wouldn't behave like a fool next time he shows up, and I would expect the same on his part.

I do want to add that I have never been rude, belligerant, or disrespectful with an inspector. If there is a disagreement on a ruling, we talk about it and, if necessary, go up the food chain. I never meant otherwise.

As in, say, states that have annual automobile inspections, one of the inspector's concerns is not getting in trouble for letting iffy things slide. If his 'supervisor' (the state police here in VA) overturns a fail decision, the inspector is "off the hook."
 
mivey said:
Some are happy that it was all worked out, but step back a moment and ask yourself what was really worked out? ...
Click to expand...

Well ,..it did not cost a days pay and a $75.00 fee, plus parking in Boston ,...got to be $30.00 plus gas,.. I live 60 miles from Bean Town another $20.00 ,..to argue about a stupid shelf ,..for one thing
 
M. D. said:
Well ,..it did not cost a days pay and a $75.00 fee, plus parking in Boston ,...got to be $30.00 plus gas,.. I live 60 miles from Bean Town another $20.00 ,..to argue about a stupid shelf ,..for one thing
Click to expand...
Well that was definitely a plus to the final result. I think the homeowner would rather remove the shelf than pay for all of that time and expense.

I guess my beef is: If there is nothing requiring a receptacle for a shelf installed 6 months from now, why is it an ethical breach to take it down now and install it later? I could understand if a shelf installation 6 months from now would require a receptacle.
 
mivey said:
Not to pick on you alone but what a perspective.
Click to expand...

Damn I feel like I am getting raked over the coals!

mivey said:
Some are happy that it was all worked out, but step back a moment and ask yourself what was really worked out?
Click to expand...

Well.... about the same thing that would have happened if we had told the EI that we no longer wanted the shelf, then put it back when the EI was gone?

mivey said:
If he is really right about there being a problem, how was this any better of a work-around of the rules than removing the shelf? Part of the answer is that the shelf was never a problem.
Click to expand...

Which is why I suggested going to the EI with NEC and dictionary in hand and try to explain the rationale behind my thoughts.

mivey said:
Why would you have to hide the shelf? Just tell him flat out the homeowner did not want a shelf with a receptacle and would rather have it removed. Show me where the electrician is violating any code in that case.
Click to expand...

No violation. But if the homeowner really does want the shelf, then a falsehood is being related to the inspector. As seen in this thread, some folks had an issue with that. Others didn't.

mivey said:
The bottom line is, the inspector still thinks you are violating the rules, so "ethically speaking", you are still violating the rules.
Click to expand...

In my scenario, I went to the inspector and through the use of ironclad debate and reasoning, he understood my position, agreed that the dictionary definition should hold, said the shelf didn't need a receptacle, and then he took me and Iwire to dinner and a movie for having taught him something so he could better do his job in the future.

mivey said:
Still feel ethically cleansed?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

In my scenario: YES!!!!:smile:

In the real world, I cannot say what I would have done until actually confronted with the situation, and that holds true for most of us. We would weigh the risks and benefits, weigh the odds as best possible, and then do what was necessary and prudent.
 
And Mivey, I cannot say that in the real world, that I wouldn't have just told the EI that the homeowner did not want the shelf if it had to have a receptacle. Who knows?
 
crossman said:
In my scenario, I went to the inspector and through the use of ironclad debate and reasoning, he understood my position, agreed that the dictionary definition should hold, said the shelf didn't need a receptacle, and then he took me and Iwire to dinner and a movie for having taught him something so he could better do his job in the future.
Click to expand...
I forgot about the dinner and a movie. I guess we all have a different picture in our minds of what the situation and layout and EC vs EI mood is exactly. My scenario was a crazy inspector.

I did not intend to drag you through the coals and ruin your dinner jacket.:grin:
 
If it came down to me incurring the cost of an appeal and advising the removal of the shelf ..

remove the shelf please

If I were going to be compensated for my time and travel expense I would happily go to The City of Beans and argue about the stupid shelf.. all day long and into the night..
 
mivey said:
post #106
Fixing this inspector may require extended treatments.
Click to expand...

mivey said:
post #123
He has not learned why the shelf was not a problem, he has only learned that you will play hardball. He still needs to be exorcised.
Click to expand...

Is the inspectors head spinning around 360 degrees ? . Is his tongue green and gooey ? . Does he sound alittle like James Earl Jones or maybe the Persian Emperor Xerxes in the Spartan Movie '300' ?

Do we need to bring in the big guns or will the dwarf woman from Poltergeist be good enough ?
 
dnem said:
Is the inspectors head spinning around 360 degrees ? . Is his tongue green and gooey ? . Does he sound alittle like James Earl Jones or maybe the Persian Emperor Xerxes in the Spartan Movie '300' ?

Do we need to bring in the big guns or will the dwarf woman from Poltergeist be good enough ?
Click to expand...
Just bring in the big guns. Nip it in the bud. Bud-nippin: that what I'm talking about.:grin:
 
mivey said:
I think Larry seems to be the only one who appreciates the irony and spelled it out.
Click to expand...
Thank you! :smile:

I could understand if a shelf installation 6 months from now would require a receptacle.
Click to expand...
Apparently, that's the mindset of those who suggest removing the shelf for the inspection, as well as those who suggest that doing so is unethical.

Added:My word is 'unnecessary.' There's nothing to hide.
 
Last edited:
Now that the inspector has signed off on it, I would advise removing the shelf. So far, it's existence has only brought strife and conflict to those even remotely associated with it, so it seems only proper to haul it out to a distant canyon and destroy it.
 
That's good and all George ,...but ,..if you were to ask me,..? I'd say it is the inspector that needs to ,..figuratively ,..take that trip to the canyon:smile:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top