Island Receptacles

Location
Texas
Occupation
electrical Code instructor and mentor
The submissions are pretty much all online now at the NFPA website, but as Roger said, way too late to make a public input for the 2026 code. There will be an opportunity to try and influence the 2026 code with a public comment on the actions taken in the first draft, but no new material can be submitted. The window of opportunity is small...July 10th, through August 28th of this year.

I did not know that it was too late for proposals.
I know it takes several months to prepare for the next edition.
Seems like everybody wants to have their agenda in the 'book'.

Thanks, I didn't think anyone was reading my posts. I need to watch what I say, chuckle.

Ya"ll keep me in line, pad'na, as they say down here in Texas.
Happy tails to ya'll .

TX+MASTER#4544
 
Location
Texas
Occupation
electrical Code instructor and mentor
Handbook comments are unenforceable where I'm licensed.

Re: Code book commentaries

Yeah, and when I was the electrical inspector I would lean toward an informational note ( IN ) if the problem was something that was very vague and border-lining on the actual Code rule.

I would rely on Code commentary to bi-laterally approve the dispute based on my authority (AHJ) granted to me by the Code and the (CBO) chief building official in that municipality. The current Code has always been adopted by that city council so I think my decision(s) would be backed up by the council if went that far.

"The commentary and supplementary materials, therefore, solely reflect the personal opinions of the editor or other contributors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its technical committees"

Underlining is furnished to bring attention to the sole source(s).

That was found in the "All rights reserved" page preceding the above statement... "Important Notices and Disclaimers". From the 2023 NEC.

So, one would have to write to NFPA for a very formal interpretation concerning the alleged infraction.

Electrical inspections, and others, are very time sensitive. Yes, I would rely on a commentary if I was comfortable with it knowing the CBO and the council had my back.

Thanks for reading.
Comments accepted.
TX+MASTER#4544
 

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
My step son bought a house a couple years back and the kitchen was open floor. He decided to rip out all the carpet including that which was in the living room adjacent to the kitchen and put in floating groove and tongue flooring.

He also purchased an island counter much later as shown in the picture and had it anchored to the foundation with the help of his father in law who also happens to be an electrician as myself (him more residential and me being more industrial with residential exp)

When I came to his house and saw the island counter approx 6’ x 3’ i did mention that code required a GFCI protected receptacle on this island counter but my stepson rejected the idea.

I suppose the foundation concrete would have had to been cut and pvc conduit laid to hold a new branch circuit to this island if this were to happen.

However, the island was anchored down ant the help of his father in law but no receptacle was ever added. Later the foundation was covered with the groove and tongue flooring.

How would this affect selling the house in the future in regard to an island receptacle code violation?

How do people usually handle installing a new island and branch circuit with covered concrete ground and no branch circuit available? Is it normally such a big project such as using a wet saw to cut the concrete and laying conduit and junction boxes? would the branch circuit for this new island normally extend from the nearest sink receptacle or one of the kitchen small appliance branch circuits?

Splicing into one of the kitchen wall small appliance branch circuits seems you would have to break a portion of the drywall. What would be the best option and again how would this affect selling the house in the future? Just curious thanks
 

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garbo

Senior Member
Reminds me many moons ago when I was an apprentice and the master electrician told me to learn the code and ask questions but said be prepared if you asked 3 inspectors or electricians the same question don't be surprised if you receive three different answers . Back in the 1970's when I took the test for my electrical license one question was what the identified conductor. Three electricians gave me three different answers. It was the neutral ( now grounded conductor ) and believe they took the identified conductor term out of the NEC in late 1970's.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I did not know that it was too late for proposals.
I know it takes several months to prepare for the next edition.
Seems like everybody wants to have their agenda in the 'book'.

Thanks, I didn't think anyone was reading my posts. I need to watch what I say, chuckle.

Ya"ll keep me in line, pad'na, as they say down here in Texas.
Happy tails to ya'll .

TX+MASTER#4544
It pretty much takes the full 3 years between editions to get the next edition done.
The system opens for the submission of Public Inputs shorty after the code is issued. That means the system accepted PIs for the 2026 code in late 2022 or very early 2023. The submission of inputs ended 9/7/23. The in person first draft meeting were in January of this year. The first draft will be published on 7/10/24, and open for Public Comments until 8/28/24. The Second Draft Report will be published 3/21/25, and the 2026 code will be adopted, subject to appeals and Standards Council approved in June of 2025. The 2026 code will be published in August of 2025 and the process will start over.
 
Location
Texas
Occupation
electrical Code instructor and mentor
My step son bought a house a couple years back and the kitchen was open floor. He decided to rip out all the carpet including that which was in the living room adjacent to the kitchen and put in floating groove and tongue flooring.

He also purchased an island counter much later as shown in the picture and had it anchored to the foundation with the help of his father in law who also happens to be an electrician as myself (him more residential and me being more industrial with residential exp)

When I came to his house and saw the island counter approx 6’ x 3’ i did mention that code required a GFCI protected receptacle on this island counter but my stepson rejected the idea.

I suppose the foundation concrete would have had to been cut and pvc conduit laid to hold a new branch circuit to this island if this were to happen.

However, the island was anchored down ant the help of his father in law but no receptacle was ever added. Later the foundation was covered with the groove and tongue flooring.

How would this affect selling the house in the future in regard to an island receptacle code violation?

How do people usually handle installing a new island and branch circuit with covered concrete ground and no branch circuit available? Is it normally such a big project such as using a wet saw to cut the concrete and laying conduit and junction boxes? would the branch circuit for this new island normally extend from the nearest sink receptacle or one of the kitchen small appliance branch circuits?

Splicing into one of the kitchen wall small appliance branch circuits seems you would have to break a portion of the drywall. What would be the best option and again how would this affect selling the house in the future? Just curious thanks

jpflex: kitchen island.........

Hello.
Here in the great state of Texas and as of approximately September, 2023 it adopted the 2023 NEC as it is written.
Prior to the new 2023 NEC, receptacles were required for kitchen islands, peninsular counter tops and work spaces were required in single family dwellings as found in section 210.52(C) (2)(a) (b) and (3).

Fast forward to the 2023 NEC and section 210.52(C) (2), Island and Peninsular Countertops and Work Surfaces. Now states...."Receptacle outlets, if installed to serve an island or peninsular countertop or work surface, shall be installed in accordance with 210.52 (C)(3). Notice it did say..if...
installed.
So, that means that you don't have to do it.

However, you will have to provide for future installation according to (C)(3) Receptacle Outlet Location. ...Receptacle outlets shall be located in one or more of the following options : (1) (2) (3). They are as follows for future usage:

Option (1) in the back splash above the countertop (2) use a listed outlet assembly in the countertop (3) or just simply stub it up wherever you need it and put an empty box with a blank cover for future installation by others.

In an existing situation like this and if you have attic space, drop the circuit down from the attic space and build around it with trim wood and paint, etc. Set a junction box in the attic and splice into an existing 20 amp small appliance circuit or pull in a new circuit if easier.

I would not saw cut the slab for fear of cutting the post tension cable(s). So, I don't think you have a problem with the overhead route if there's attic space. I assume it's a slab foundation.

Yes, that receptacle(s) would have to be connected to the existing small appliance branch 20 amp circuit as per Code.
And, all receptacle(s) are required to be GFCI and AFCI protection as per 2023NEC.

So, attic space is the way to solve this problem. Again, prior to the 2023 NEC receptacle(s) were required.

It should not affect the future sale of the house if it was never there in the beginning, when was it built?
You need to discuss that with your realtor. I have no knowledge of something like this.

Remember, all electrical work shall be performed by a properly licensed electrician and may require an electrical permit.

Thanks for your question.
TX+MASTER#4544
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
My step son bought a house a couple years back and the kitchen was open floor. He decided to rip out all the carpet including that which was in the living room adjacent to the kitchen and put in floating groove and tongue flooring.

He also purchased an island counter much later as shown in the picture and had it anchored to the foundation with the help of his father in law who also happens to be an electrician as myself (him more residential and me being more industrial with residential exp)

When I came to his house and saw the island counter approx 6’ x 3’ i did mention that code required a GFCI protected receptacle on this island counter but my stepson rejected the idea.

I suppose the foundation concrete would have had to been cut and pvc conduit laid to hold a new branch circuit to this island if this were to happen.

However, the island was anchored down ant the help of his father in law but no receptacle was ever added. Later the foundation was covered with the groove and tongue flooring.

How would this affect selling the house in the future in regard to an island receptacle code violation?

How do people usually handle installing a new island and branch circuit with covered concrete ground and no branch circuit available? Is it normally such a big project such as using a wet saw to cut the concrete and laying conduit and junction boxes? would the branch circuit for this new island normally extend from the nearest sink receptacle or one of the kitchen small appliance branch circuits?

Splicing into one of the kitchen wall small appliance branch circuits seems you would have to break a portion of the drywall. What would be the best option and again how would this affect selling the house in the future? Just curious thanks
Probably won't be very desirable but this can be made code compliant without needing to go under/in/on the floor by hanging pendant receptacle(s) @ no more than 20" above the countertop.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jpflex: kitchen island.........

Hello.
Here in the great state of Texas and as of approximately September, 2023 it adopted the 2023 NEC as it is written.
Prior to the new 2023 NEC, receptacles were required for kitchen islands, peninsular counter tops and work spaces were required in single family dwellings as found in section 210.52(C) (2)(a) (b) and (3).

Fast forward to the 2023 NEC and section 210.52(C) (2), Island and Peninsular Countertops and Work Surfaces. Now states...."Receptacle outlets, if installed to serve an island or peninsular countertop or work surface, shall be installed in accordance with 210.52 (C)(3). Notice it did say..if...
installed.
So, that means that you don't have to do it.

However, you will have to provide for future installation according to (C)(3) Receptacle Outlet Location. ...Receptacle outlets shall be located in one or more of the following options : (1) (2) (3). They are as follows for future usage:

Option (1) in the back splash above the countertop (2) use a listed outlet assembly in the countertop (3) or just simply stub it up wherever you need it and put an empty box with a blank cover for future installation by others.

In an existing situation like this and if you have attic space, drop the circuit down from the attic space and build around it with trim wood and paint, etc. Set a junction box in the attic and splice into an existing 20 amp small appliance circuit or pull in a new circuit if easier.

I would not saw cut the slab for fear of cutting the post tension cable(s). So, I don't think you have a problem with the overhead route if there's attic space. I assume it's a slab foundation.

Yes, that receptacle(s) would have to be connected to the existing small appliance branch 20 amp circuit as per Code.
And, all receptacle(s) are required to be GFCI and AFCI protection as per 2023NEC.

So, attic space is the way to solve this problem. Again, prior to the 2023 NEC receptacle(s) were required.

It should not affect the future sale of the house if it was never there in the beginning, when was it built?
You need to discuss that with your realtor. I have no knowledge of something like this.

Remember, all electrical work shall be performed by a properly licensed electrician and may require an electrical permit.

Thanks for your question.
TX+MASTER#4544
I think this "if" has come from the long debate over the possibility of say a small child pulling a counter top appliance by the cord and having it full of hot content and burning themselves, possibly severely should it be something like a deep fryer at full operating temp.

I know way back into the 1990's there were jurisdictions that did allow you to not to choose to put receptacles on islands or peninsulas for this reason, many however said if you do you put even one receptacle on it that all code requirements will kick in for that island or peninsula. NEC apparently finally caught on with this
 

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
Probably won't be very desirable but this can be made code compliant without needing to go under/in/on the floor by hanging pendant receptacle(s) @ no more than 20" above the countertop.
Interesting and I’ll have to look this one up
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Interesting and I’ll have to look this one up
210.52(C)(3)

Does not mention style, type or whatever just basically says required receptacles for the countertop need to be on or above the work surface and not more than 20 inches above, in the work surface if an assembly listed for that use, or no more than 12 inches below with maximum 6 inches of overhang.
 

Mr.Y

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrical engineer
Will those installations meet NEC 2020 if 2 receptacles required?
1710948374096.png 1710948479137.png
For second picture we can't mount it on the back side due to overhang, will sides installation, says 4" from edge meet the code?
 

Mr.Y

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrical engineer
LarryFine, can be used with a wooden countertop, but I notice quartz/stone/marble being more commonly used.
Additionally, it seems that in your picture the receptacle is ~10" from the edge whereas NEC guidelines allow no more than 6"
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
LarryFine, can be used with a wooden countertop, but I notice quartz/stone/marble being more commonly used.
Additionally, it seems that in your picture the receptacle is ~10" from the edge whereas NEC guidelines allow no more than 6"
Use construction adhesive and a few inches of cover like Wiremold. That was just a pic I found.
 
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