Journeymen playing E.C.

[GG]

I ran across the 8th TX state licensed journeyman who is printing business cards and running adds soliliciting electrical work when In my opinion they have absolutely no right doing so. I bid a $6000 job today and the GC told me the last guy said he could do it for $3000. When I finally stopped laughing I asked him to show me the bid. He pulled a business card from his wallet that said "Joe Wannabe Electric - Licensed Journeyman", and on the back was scribbled $3000. So I called Joe up and found out he doesn't have a Masters license. Do you guys have to put up with crap like this in your area? I plan on calling the city inspector when the job gets started and see if an electrical permit was issued. I have turned guys like this in before but nothing ever comes from it. Where do these journeyman get off advertising they are an electrical contractor? I guess I'm just hacked off because I spent a year just studying for my masters before I started my business.

 

[celtic]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by GG:
I have turned guys like this in before but nothing ever comes from it.

Sorry to hear that. Up in NJ, we take it seriously. You read all about the fines that have been levied at the State's Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors website - www.nj.gov/lps/ca/electric/minutes/elecmin.htm

The fines I have read about ranged from 2k (I believe that is the minimum) to over 30k.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

They take it seriously in Minnesota, too. The state authorities have an easy way of dealing with licensed journeymen who play EC -- they can suspend/revoke their journeyman license. Anyone who holds a journeyman license knows he isn't allowed to play EC, so he wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on if he got caught.

As for hacks/handymen/painters advertising that they do electrical work, the attorney general has to get involved if the offender doesn't comply with a cease-and-desist letter, as the licensing authorities can't do much to people they haven't issued a license to. I've turned in plenty of them myself, and I know it has an effect. Just about every ad I've shown to the authorities has disappeared from print shortly thereafter. I've also had advertising reps ask me if I'm licensed when I inquire about advertising because some hack who used to advertise electrical work with them got in trouble. I almost said, "Yeah, I know."

I don't always know if the people I've turned in are hacks or licensed journeymen doing side work, but I do know they aren't licensed ECs. I figure if I had to go to the trouble and expense to get my EC license, they should too. Fair's fair.

 

[growler]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

In my opinion this is what happens when a state decides to require a state license and then grand-fathers in anyone that can show 5 years in the trade ( or whatever). They get many that are not qualified. You studied to get your masters but I understand that many were grand-fathered. I work in Georgia and the same thing happened here. Some of the states that have switched to state licensing have started over and tested everyone. That way a journeyman knows what license he holds and how valuable it is and does not want to loose it. Then he becomes a master and EC. Also the people that have earned their license by certification don't go around permitting jobs for every Tom, Dick and Harry.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Seems to me that it is only fair that if a state decides to go the path of requiring licensing for these type of activities that the requirements be the same for everyone. I have never quite understood the concept of grandfathering. If indeed the case is so urgent that the state has to step in to "protect the public", than the public should be "protected" from the old timers too.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Grandfathering never made much sense to me, either. Seems like a huge loophole that would allow way too many unqualified people to get licensed.

Incidentally, I just saw an ad for an "Eletrician Handyman". I'm not so sure I'd hire someone who either doesn't know how to spell "electrician" or can't be bothered to spell check his advertising.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Incidentally, I just saw an ad for an "Eletrician Handyman". I'm not so sure I'd hire someone who either doesn't know how to spell "electrician" or can't be bothered to spell check his advertising.

I would not be too hard on him. The misspelling probably occured at the copy writer's end.

 

[GG]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Grandfathering never made much sense to me, either. Seems like a huge loophole that would allow way too many unqualified people to get licensed.

I couldnt agree more. Texas allowed you to grandfather in for about 6 months and that ended June 1st of 2004. Now TDLR (texas dept. of licensing and regulation) is actually bringing back the grandfathering. Until Dec 31st of 2005 anyone who shows a little time in the trade or has a buddy write them a letter stating they put a receptacle in will now get a free license and not have to even take an exam. I guess TDLR liked all the money that grandfathering brought in and now they want more. I wonder what all that money is getting spent on? Someone is profiting and it sure isnt me!

 

[growler]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

GG, I noticed another nasty little loophole that I'm sure will turn out bad for contractors. When most states require an EC to either be a master or hire a master they state that the master must be a full time employee. Texas left this out. Maybe they thought it was covered by requiring that a journeyman to work under the supervision of a master but I couldn't find any requirements for amount of supervision. I may be wrong about the facts ( didn't spend that much time looking, just comparing rules ), but it looks to me as if the new rules are more for show ( and money ) than any real interest in public safety. And I don't think that local contractors would wish to open the door to so much unqualified competition either.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by petersonra:

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Incidentally, I just saw an ad for an "Eletrician Handyman". I'm not so sure I'd hire someone who either doesn't know how to spell "electrician" or can't be bothered to spell check his advertising.

I would not be too hard on him. The misspelling probably occured at the copy writer's end.

Nope -- it was a self-posted ad on the Internet.

 

[tx2step]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by GG:
I ran across the 8th TX state licensed journeyman who is printing business cards and running adds soliliciting electrical work when In my opinion they have absolutely no right doing so... I have turned guys like this in before but nothing ever comes from it. Where do these journeyman get off advertising they are an electrical contractor?

GG -- I completely sympathize!

Have you tried writing a letter of formal complaint directly to the TDLR? I would do that (via certified mail) and include a copy of any card or advertisement that showed that they were soliciting work as a contractor. That would be a clear violation of the licensing laws.

It will take some time and effort on the part of legitimate ECs to get this kind of thing stopped. But it was a problem before the state license requirements, since the only avenue of enforcement was from city inspectors and city code enforcement. The city AHJs aren't any more likely to enforce state licensing requirements than they were of enforcing their own previous city licensing requirements.

I'll be really interested in what response and action you get from TDLR in Austin. Please keep us informed.

 

[celtic]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

If you really want to see some insane advertising, check out craigslist.org. On the right-hand side, pick your state or city closest to you; then in the middle column under the "services" heading click on "skilled trades" and enter "electrician".

Here's one from NJ:

I can do house electrical and plumbing jobs. I can also install car tvs, dvds, alarms, and lights.

Available Electrician/Car Electronic Installer/Plumber

I guess electricity is electricity and pipe is pipe.

The guy was nice enough to leave his phone number - maybe I should notify the BoEoEC , before this guy kills someone.


I have spent a great deal of time and money to obtain my EC license. I spend lots more money on insurance, bonding, continued education, etc. What "our friend" above is doing is absolutely wrong ~ both PCs and ECs should be highly offended.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

True, there are some bad apples on craigslist.org, but not everyone there is a hack. I have an ad on craigslist, and it's been a pretty good source of jobs for me. In fact, I get more calls and jobs from my craigslist ad than I do from my Yellow Pages ad, which costs a lot more.

Unlike the hack who does electric, plumbing, car alarms, gutter cleaning, window washing, etc., I am a state-licensed EC, fully insured, bonded, etc.

 

[megawatt]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

The State of Kentucky did the same thing, grand fathered practically anyone that could pay the fees with a credit card on line.
Only watered down the gene pool here.
Most of Us that had to pass the tests, prove Our experience & training, before this.. felt like the least They could've done was to verify the experience through tax records etc. but I believe it got to be to much of a task. They ended up taking a letter from an Inspector as proof ??

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

About 10 years ago i stoped at the courthouse in Shepardsville KY,inquired as to what it took to be an EC there.No test just a fee of about $100 and since it was July would be half price.She was ready to fill the paper work out right then.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

I know a guy who had his J-man business cards printed out before he even took his test. He immediately started working on his own, and is using a master's that moved out of state, supposedly. I would not want to be (remotely) responsible for that guy's work.

The guy's gonna get his come-upin's, I just hope nobody gets hurt in the process.

 

[GG]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

I use to take pride in telling friends and family that I was a master electrician and an electrical contractor. I feel that grandfathering cheapened the whole thing and now I feel like when I speak of my licenses its like telling people I have a drivers license. Most people in DFW dont care about licenses and just want the rock bottom price. As long as the lights and receptacles work their happy.

[ June 28, 2005, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: GG ]

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by GG:
Most people in DFW dont care about licenses and just want the rock bottom price. As long as the lights and receptacles work their happy.

I've noticed the same thing in recent years. I call it the "Wal-Mart Mentality".

 

[celtic]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by mdshunk:
I've noticed the same thing in recent years. I call it the "Wal-Mart Mentality".

LMAO..good one MD. :roll: just decides to finish a basement or something) .

 

[charlie b]

Re: Journeymen playing E.C.

Originally posted by celtic: I'll be adding that in the "dictionary," right under the ever popular "spontaneous construction"

That one may have been popular, but it is new to me. So here?s a ?LMAO? right back at you.