July 06 Tariffs.

[Fulthrotl]

ok. this is not political. it's informational. don't shoot the messenger.

in the US, we have a president. today, he signed a tariff regarding imports from china.

a 25% hike taking place, starting in two weeks. 25%. keep that in mind. 25%

here is a snip of some of the stuff it will be applied to.

irregardless of how you feel about chinese products, and i'm not much of a fan,
a tariff is a TAX paid for by the consumer of the product. you, me, and the people we sell to.

carefully note the screenshot i've posted here. let your bidding reflect this information.

pay careful attention to motors and motor controls. all of them. yep.

 

[gadfly56]

Tariffs and embargoes can be tricky. IIRC, New England nearly seceded prior to the War of 1812 over the issue.

On a more current note, I thought I remembered domestic suppliers had already raised prices in anticipation?

 

[electrofelon]

Seems like this could be tricky for people bidding large projects now.

 

[romex jockey]

The price of poker just went up.....

~S~

 

[macmikeman]

I don't see how the DIY isle at Home Depot is going to be effected much by this latest assault on Chinese motors , so I figure I'm safe. At least I think I am............

 

[petersonra]

Buy Siemens. Most of their stuff is made in the US.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Tariffs and embargoes can be tricky. IIRC, New England nearly seceded prior to the War of 1812 over the issue.

On a more current note, I thought I remembered domestic suppliers had already raised prices in anticipation?

my wholesale house reports that conduit went up a third last month. all conduit,
and most of the conduit he buys is US made. they raised prices as well. why not?

expect the same thing to happen with this.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I don't see how the DIY isle at Home Depot is going to be effected much by this latest assault on Chinese motors , so I figure I'm safe. At least I think I am............

ahem. not just bare motors. all motors.
and the controls.

washers, dryers, garbage disposals, forced air units,
power tools, everything.

the motor portion of your milwualkee fuel, and the controls,
just went up 25%.

not as safe as you might have thought.

 

[electrofelon]

my wholesale house reports that conduit went up a third last month. all conduit,
and most of the conduit he buys is US made. they raised prices as well. why not?

expect the same thing to happen with this.

Good point. If my competition started charging more, I guess I would too. Why not?

 

[RumRunner]

Good point. If my competition started charging more, I guess I would too. Why not?

Tariffs apply to all imports...not just motors, controls and electronics from China. Steel from Canada that US mfg use for US made motors and raw materials for making cars, conduits also come from other countries like Australia and Africa.

Newly imposed tariffs are simply reciprocal action from economists to level the playing field so to speak.

Canada imposes over 200 percent tariff on US dairy products while Chinese unconventional low currency evaluation makes US mfg industries hard to compete with low ball Chinese pricing policy.

These changes may not be sustenable from the Chinese perspective...which might force them to negotiate.
Tariffs may not sound like music to people's ears but it is a ncessary evil.

If China thinks that (or can prove) their economy will remain robust without the US then weakening of the dollar would ensue which would dampen investors' confidence.

However a weak dollar is not all that bad. Foreign countries will come in droves to have a piece of the action , spend and invest their money in the richest country in the world.

 

[hbiss]

Good point. If my competition started charging more, I guess I would too. Why not?

They are greedy idiots like most corporations. The purpose of tariffs on foreign goods is to encourage us to buy American. When American made goods costs the same or less that will happen. American manufacturers will sell more, make more profit and expand creating new jobs.

Raise your prices and you shoot yourself in the foot, you're back to square one.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

They are greedy idiots like most corporations. The purpose of tariffs on foreign goods is to encourage us to buy American. When American made goods costs the same or less that will happen. American manufacturers will sell more, make more profit and expand creating new jobs.

Raise your prices and you shoot yourself in the foot, you're back to square one.

-Hal

There also is American made goods with raw materials or individual components that came from elsewhere.

 

[petersonra]

We have all kinds of anticompetitive and economically dubious things built in to our economy as do virtually all economies. The economy is bound to the political system and such things just cannot be eliminated entirely, despite how much some might think the over all good would be served. Usually we only really care about what is good for ourselves and some even start to delusionally believe that what is good for them must also be good for the country as a whole.

Tariffs are a funny thing. Back in the depression it was big business that wanted tariffs thinking it would protect their markets. Later it was unions who demanded them thinking it would protect their jobs.

Tariffs are disruptive but often the end result is not what was hoped for, or at least what was publically claimed was the end goal.

Personally, I don't know what the economic impact of the tariffs is versus not being able to make these things ourselves. Various levels of government basically forced manufacturing companies to move out of the country as none of them wanted factories, although they longed for the days of the factory jobs that they deliberately chased out of the country.

In the short run it may be somewhat disruptive. In the long run who knows what effect it might have.

 

[electrofelon]

They are greedy idiots like most corporations. The purpose of tariffs on foreign goods is to encourage us to buy American. When American made goods costs the same or less that will happen. American manufacturers will sell more, make more profit and expand creating new jobs.

Raise your prices and you shoot yourself in the foot, you're back to square one.

-Hal

Yes that is the textbook explanation of what they are supposed to do, but there are market forces and people's mentality that add all sorts of complications and unintended consequences.

 

[hbiss]

... but there are market forces and people's mentality that add all sorts of complications and unintended consequences.

Those would be the greedy idiots I spoke of.

-Hal

 

[peter d]

my wholesale house reports that conduit went up a third last month. all conduit,
and most of the conduit he buys is US made. they raised prices as well. why not?

expect the same thing to happen with this.

That explains why that EMT I just bought seemed awfully expensive. :rant:

 

[peter d]

ahem. not just bare motors. all motors.
and the controls.

washers, dryers, garbage disposals, forced air units,
power tools, everything.

the motor portion of your milwualkee fuel, and the controls,
just went up 25%.

not as safe as you might have thought.

Goodman uses those garbage Broad Ocean motors as do a lot of other hvac manufacturers. I'm assuming they'll start using a lot more Mexican ones now.

 

[RumRunner]

We have all kinds of anticompetitive and economically dubious things built in to our economy as do virtually all economies. The economy is bound to the political system and such things just cannot be eliminated entirely, despite how much some might think the over all good would be served. Usually we only really care about what is good for ourselves and some even start to delusionally believe that what is good for them must also be good for the country as a whole.

Tariffs are a funny thing. Back in the depression it was big business that wanted tariffs thinking it would protect their markets. Later it was unions who demanded them thinking it would protect their jobs.

Tariffs are disruptive but often the end result is not what was hoped for, or at least what was publically claimed was the end goal.

Personally, I don't know what the economic impact of the tariffs is versus not being able to make these things ourselves. Various levels of government basically forced manufacturing companies to move out of the country as none of them wanted factories, although they longed for the days of the factory jobs that they deliberately chased out of the country.

In the short run it may be somewhat disruptive. In the long run who knows what effect it might have.

I beg to divagate.

Tariffs have been around for centuries dating back to the days of King Hammurabi, who wrote the code of conduct that enable society to function as organized, civilized communities.

Although there had been earlier versions written in 1700 BC, the Hammurabi Code is the most complete that became the basis of laws in modern society.

The 282 laws include economic provisions (prices, tariffs, trade, and commerce) family law (marriage and divorce) as well as criminal law.

Scholars had refined the original laws as written, and are applied to a wider realm than any single country.

So, tariffs are not a product of greedy idiots as some hyperbole had heralded and claimed. . . which is simply intended to catch people's attention.

Tariffs are a necessity if we are to function as homogeneous crowd. . . separate from mammals swinging in trees.

Perhaps a review of ancient history and some ancient practices that guided modern society.

Take a look at Encyclopedia Britannica for a detailed insight.

 

[ptonsparky]

The farm customer I have that needs to build a new grain system is already stung by lower prices than they enjoyed a few years, now has a hit with even lower prices because of the tariffs. Then we get to add the steel prices. It could be very tough time for those of us who do mostly Ag related projects.

 

[Dzboyce]

We use a lot of steel pipe for well casing. As soon as the possibility of tariffs were proposed, steel prices rose. And have rose more than the amount of the tariff. Here in the Pacific Northeest, steel pipe is almost exclusively imported. There are no rolling mills in the area.

I have always used Korean casing. I can tell the difference in how Chinese pipe welds compared to Korean. Korean pipe has been limited to 70% of the last three years imports. A week or two ago I checked on availability of 18” casing for the well I’m drilling. I was told this year’s quota of Korean pipe has already been imported, and we are half way thru next year’s quota. Any price quotes we receive are only valid for 24 hours. Looks like casing might start coming from Vietnam and the Philippines. One of my suppliers is considering converting one of their mills in Canada to a pipe mill.

in the domestic well market 6” casing is what we mostly use. It now costs more us than we were selling it for in December. On the project I’m current drilling, so far we have used 80 ft of 24” 3/8 Wall, 80 feet of 10 3/4” 1/4” Wall, 600 feet of 8” 1/4” wall. We will still use 400 to 500 ft of 18” 3/8” casing. Customer just has to eat the added cost.