July 06 Tariffs.

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ptonsparky said:
It could be very tough time for those of us who do mostly Ag related projects.
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could? i love the optimism, but those winged horses are about to get shot out
of the sky i fear.

the problem is, we have canada, mexico, and china all using targeted tariffs,
aiming at specific industries in areas that is heavy with the staunchest supporters
of our current president. it's political, not economic.

harley davidson, kentucky bourbon, on and on. specific surgical strikes.

here's a huge one. international law provides for patents to be repatriated in
the event of a national emergency or threat. this was established in 2001, with
the anthrax scare.

if we leave NAFTA, canada has EVERY right to begin making the entire catalog of
Eli Lilly, and every other big pharma company. and selling them globally. cheaply.

the only people buying US pharmaceuticals will be US citizens, at prices they can't
afford.

this is to make big pharma, the biggest lobby in america, square off against the
person who brought the end of NAFTA on.
 
Fulthrotl said:
here's a huge one. international law provides for patents to be repatriated in
the event of a national emergency or threat. this was established in 2001, with
the anthrax scare.

if we leave NAFTA, canada has EVERY right to begin making the entire catalog of
Eli Lilly, and every other big pharma company. and selling them globally. cheaply.

the only people buying US pharmaceuticals will be US citizens, at prices they can't
afford.

this is to make big pharma, the biggest lobby in america, square off against the
person who brought the end of NAFTA on.
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I guess we will see if the Trumpy Bear has any guts.

Andrew Jackson not only fought a number of duels but showed what kind of man he was by taking on the big banks (considered even more dangerous). They swore they would get him but they didn't.
 
myspark said:
I beg to divagate.

Tariffs have been around for centuries dating back to the days of King Hammurabi, who wrote the code of conduct that enable society to function as organized, civilized communities.

Although there had been earlier versions written in 1700 BC, the Hammurabi Code is the most complete that became the basis of laws in modern society.

The 282 laws include economic provisions (prices, tariffs, trade, and commerce) family law (marriage and divorce) as well as criminal law.

Scholars had refined the original laws as written, and are applied to a wider realm than any single country.

So, tariffs are not a product of greedy idiots as some hyperbole had heralded and claimed. . . which is simply intended to catch people's attention.

Tariffs are a necessity if we are to function as homogeneous crowd. . . separate from mammals swinging in trees.

Perhaps a review of ancient history and some ancient practices that guided modern society.

Take a look at Encyclopedia Britannica for a detailed insight.
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As an illustration, US citizens pay 3X the world price for sugar, due to tariffs set up to protect domestic producers. IIRC, an analysis was done that said it would be cheaper to pay every worker $100,000 a year forever out of the general revenue and ditch the tariffs.
 
gadfly56 said:
tariffs are not a product of greedy idiots as some hyperbole had heralded and claimed. . .
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I never said that tariffs were a product of greedy idiots. I said greedy idiots will take advantage of the tariffs that lower prices of offshore goods to raise their own prices. You illustrated that perfectly below:

gadfly56 said:
As an illustration, US citizens pay 3X the world price for sugar, due to tariffs set up to protect domestic producers. IIRC, an analysis was done that said it would be cheaper to pay every worker $100,000 a year forever out of the general revenue and ditch the tariffs.
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-Hal
 
gadfly56 said:
As an illustration, US citizens pay 3X the world price for sugar, due to tariffs set up to protect domestic producers. IIRC, an analysis was done that said it would be cheaper to pay every worker $100,000 a year forever out of the general revenue and ditch the tariffs.
Click to expand...

If you compare what Europeans pay for imported goods, you'd be glad you're living in the US.

Not only do they pay high prices for goods they import, they also have to deal with regressive taxation on top of the tariffs.

Another one that really cuts into their subsistence money (Australia is no different) is the Value Added Tax (VAT)
This is the kind that adds to the price as the goods are being moved from say; customs to warehousing to the retail store. Truckers need to earn a living too.
This is similar to double taxation.

Tariff is usually a one-time charge as goods are received. The levy is imposed as these imports are received. . . whether or not the items are sold. Taxes are levied when you buy the item.

When I was in Australia a few years ago. . . the Aussie Dollar (AuD) surpassed the US Dollar in value. . . a kilogram of banana cost the equivalent of 7.00 US dollars.

They don't grow a lot of bananas (because they can't) so, most of them are imported from South America like we do here, but, we only pay 99 cents a pound sometimes even less.

NAFTA anyone?
 
hbiss said:
I never said that tariffs were a product of greedy idiots. I said greedy idiots will take advantage of the tariffs that lower prices of offshore goods to raise their own prices. You illustrated that perfectly below:



-Hal
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I don't know how it happened, but the first quote in your reply was from myspark, not me.
 
growler said:
How long can we keep shipping money out of the country? Even the deepest well can go dry.
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Money is just a medium of exchange. Running a trade deficit means we have somehow managed to convince other countries to send us more stuff than we send them. What's bad about that?

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Money is just a medium of exchange. Running a trade deficit means we have somehow managed to convince other countries to send us more stuff than we send them. What's bad about that?

Cheers, Wayne
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It's a deficit and not a debt so we actually have to pay them for extra stuff. I know we pay with money that's practically useless but that's kind of the reason it's practically useless.
 
here is an interesting chart. came from facebook and I have not had time to make sure it is accurate.

35549909_615892078770588_573905220992499712_n.jpg

there are similar disparities in rates charged by both Mexico and China IIRC.
 
hbiss said:
They are greedy idiots like most corporations. The purpose of tariffs on foreign goods is to encourage us to buy American. When American made goods costs the same or less that will happen. American manufacturers will sell more, make more profit and expand creating new jobs.

Raise your prices and you shoot yourself in the foot, you're back to square one.

-Hal
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the purpose of these tariffs is to allow US mfgs to raise their price
assume foreign stuff is 100 +25% = 125
US goods 110, now US mfgs can raise their prices to say 120 and still be cheaper
and reap a profit increase of ~10% for doing absolutely nothing

instead of US companies rising to the task the government is imposing socialist price control to help domestic industry

it never works...except for shareholders
 
myspark said:
If you compare what Europeans pay for imported goods, you'd be glad you're living in the US.

Not only do they pay high prices for goods they import, they also have to deal with regressive taxation on top of the tariffs.

Another one that really cuts into their subsistence money (Australia is no different) is the Value Added Tax (VAT)
This is the kind that adds to the price as the goods are being moved from say; customs to warehousing to the retail store. Truckers need to earn a living too.
This is similar to double taxation.

Tariff is usually a one-time charge as goods are received. The levy is imposed as these imports are received. . . whether or not the items are sold. Taxes are levied when you buy the item.

When I was in Australia a few years ago. . . the Aussie Dollar (AuD) surpassed the US Dollar in value. . . a kilogram of banana cost the equivalent of 7.00 US dollars.

They don't grow a lot of bananas (because they can't) so, most of them are imported from South America like we do here, but, we only pay 99 cents a pound sometimes even less.

NAFTA anyone?
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when you deduct healthcare costs from their tax rates they pay less
we are in for a fall bigger than 2007-2008
 
growler said:
It's a deficit and not a debt so we actually have to pay them for extra stuff. I know we pay with money that's practically useless but that's kind of the reason it's practically useless.
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the government does not pay, businesses pay and the consumer gets cheaper goods
this is a good thing

if you and I exchange goods
you buy 100
and I buy 200 (and sell for 250, pay you 200-100 = 100 and I net 150, 50% margin on my net 100 investment)

no one is complaining about it but the gov and businesses who aren't smart enough to make it work for them

as far as Canada
our net tariff rate is twice theirs, and we run a surplus
we export more dairy than we import
want cheaper dairy? get rid of the gov INTERNAL price controls and manipulation
 
Ingenieur said:
the government does not pay, businesses pay and the consumer gets cheaper goods
this is a good thing.
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Cheaper goods sound like a good thing. If the consumer is working at McDonalds instead of a real job because the manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas ?

I don't need three TVs made in china I would rather pay more and own one TV made in America and give an American a job.

It's very hard for an American business to pay a living wage & benefits and put up with all the government regulations and compete with products made with slave labor rates and not much regulation.
 
growler said:
Cheaper goods sound like a good thing. If the consumer is working at McDonalds instead of a real job because the manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas ?

I don't need three TVs made in china I would rather pay more and own one TV made in America and give an American a job.

It's very hard for an American business to pay a living wage & benefits and put up with all the government regulations and compete with products made with slave labor rates and not much regulation.
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It is mostly not about labor costs. A lot of it is just government regulations that make it very hard to build a factory in the US anymore.

You don't have the choice to buy American a lot of times becasue there just are no factories here making the products anymore. Although that is slowly changing to some extent. Some American companies that moved stuff over to China or mexico have brought them back.
 
petersonra said:
It is mostly not about labor costs. A lot of it is just government regulations that make it very hard to build a factory in the US anymore.
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I had to mention the cost of labor because most people automatically jump on the cost of hiring American workers when it comes to American manufacturing.

If you even look at the labor cost to build a new car it's not anything close to what people would think.
 
growler said:
Cheaper goods sound like a good thing. If the consumer is working at McDonalds instead of a real job because the manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas ?

I don't need three TVs made in china I would rather pay more and own one TV made in America and give an American a job.

It's very hard for an American business to pay a living wage & benefits and put up with all the government regulations and compete with products made with slave labor rates and not much regulation.
Click to expand...


for every mfg shipped overseas one is created here
bmw
mercedes
vw
honda
toyota
etc
plus all the supplier jobs created

automation and process effeciency improvements killed the jobs more so than offshore mfg
nothing wrong with a service job, except the cost of health insurance
the days of inflated wages due to unions like an assy line are gone

healthcare and financial services are over 50% of us gdp
it's the new norm

I do not care where made
I want value for my $$$
I swore an Oath to this Country to defend the Constitution
not to pay more of my hard earned money so someone can make $25/hr on an assy line to use a computer controlled wrench
that is welfare without the gov in the middle
 
why should I take a pay cut (paying more for the same goods = pay cut) so someone else can get a raise?
redistribution of wealth

now if the owners/shareholders would operate at low or no profit to pay their employees more and give me the product for the same price as their foreign competition I'm all in lol
 
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