KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

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Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Ok I think I have the answer :roll: Since it is a fire station that means it has to be manned 24/7 so with that in mind..The only variable is the occupants them selves as individuals they are still part of the fire dept.,Since it has to be manned 24/7 Then it is a dwelling but under a commercial addendum so to speak...It should have to fall under kitchen codes and the living quarters should have to be as if a home ,the rest commercial.Yes Jim that means afci`s in the sleeping quarters!!!I agree it was so much simpler when we were called to do electrical work.
Not legal ramifications.!!!!!! :confused:
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

As funny as it may be, in my experience as far as the area I'm in, yes they call 911.

Another (not directly linked to the conversation) item you may find amusing, OSHA can inspect law enforcement vehicles and facilities as well as emergency response vehicles and facilities.

State OSHA has no jurisdiction over soveriegn nations yet federal OSHA does.

So, when we think there may be "other" rules, there are and there aren't.

Roger

[ January 08, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Roger,
On a tangent:
Where does OSHA have no jurisdiction in the U.S.A.?
There are places...
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Hello Todd, I think they are stronger (HA HA) than any agency with the possible exception of Federal law enforcement and the EPA.

Even the IRS can't touch soveriegn nations, and the way I understand it, our State Highway Patrol is allowed in the Boundary in the way of invitation. (All of the above is hearsay on my part)

Roger

[ January 08, 2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Hi Roger.
All true.
But what jobsite may you or I (I know that I have) or anyone else have worked on that OSHA could not enter.
~this could be a trick question?~
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Hey Todd, you may have me here. I'll have to give this some thought. :)

Roger
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Roger,

If you got Mike Holt's latest e-mail titled 'think you're having a bad day', a hint is in one of the pictures, specifically the Last one.
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Originally posted by jimwalker: So because they get paid, doing the same type of cooking changes something. Try this logic. I build a small house for a man that lives on my property to stay as a guard to watch my ranch. I pay him so the kitchen is exempt!!!!
Click to expand...
The man who LIVES in the small house is LIVING there. That makes it a housekeeping unit, and by definition, a dwelling unit.
What does pay have to do with safety?
Click to expand...
The issue is not being paid. That was simply an attempt to be clear (it didn?t work, I see). The issue is that the fire station is a work place, a business establishment, a place of employment, a job site, an occupational setting, a locality for earning one?s livelihood, . . . (I?m running out of synonyms). Answer two questions:
(1) Do people work there? [ ] Yes [ ] No
(2) Do people live there? [ ] Yes [ ] No
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Charlie I see what you are getting at, I just do not see any of those issues (paid to be there, length of time staying there, do they live there) in the Article 100 definition.

It happens that I know some firefighters who work five days straight on duty at the station then off duty for a few days.

However that does not make a difference as the definition of dwelling unit only says provisions for sleeping, not are they used.

Of course my way of looking at it could make an office building with a well appointed break room, bathroom and a cot for sleeping a dwelling unit. :D
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Very interesting topic. It just points out how easy it is to get differing opinions on the same section of code from knowledgabe, reasonable people.

Let me argue it this way. If I go on a business trip and stay in a motel for a few nights, in a unit with a kitchenette, is the motel not a housekeeping unit because I was payed to go on the business trip? I don't think so. My employer is not paying me to stay in the motel, even though he may pay for the motel. Staying in the motel is not the objective of the trip. It's just that my job requires me to be too far away from my usual houskeeping place, my home, so I have to do my "housekeeping" at a temporary location.

Do the tax payers pay the firemen to sleep, and eat, and clean dishes? No, the firemen are paid to keep the fire equipment in order, and to respond to emergencies. They are allowed to sleep, and eat, and clean dishes at the fire station because as humans they have certain needs. It's just that the nature of their jobs won't allow them to go home to their usual place to do their "housekeeping", so a temporary place is provided for them to do it. I think any part of the station that is there strictly to allow the firement to do the "living" things that they would do at home if they didn't have to be at the fire station could be considered a "dwelling unit". Since the only reason it is there, is so that the firemen can do the things they would normally do in their own "dwelling units" if they could go there.

[ January 09, 2004, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: eprice ]
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Ok we are almost there.
Now take my same night watchman he works sunday thru wed and then goes to his own house for 4 days and his brother stays the 4 days that the first guy isnt there.And he goes to his own house sun thru wed.Does this change anything? They both get paid.
Lenght of stay or pay changes nothing.It is living while they are there.They cook ,eat ,sleep,watch tv,chat on computer in this forum ,take showers.
The portion of this building that is for living inbetween calls is housing

[ January 09, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

But was this building built for this intent? No it was constructed as a place a family to reside, and as a homestead not as a flop house. A firehouse was built with the intent to allow firemen to be able to respond to a fire call much faster. A motel is built with the intent of having travelers, vacationers, business men/women a place to rest. The home is about having a place to live. The last two are about making money hence "commercial"

[ January 09, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

So if they watch tv,cook meals,take showers,sleep it is different because they didn't enjoy being there and were paid.My small house was built to house these 2 men for exactly the same lenth of time that firemen often stay at the fire unit.They too would rather be at there own home.They are identical except they are privately hired and not public employies.This issue will only be solved by local AHJ And won't prove me or you right.I just don't see what there doing to be any different than what you do in your kitchen.Its just my opinion and it may be wrong.It would at least be safer my way.
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

OK Here's a different view: In a place of employment or even a firehouse you will have a supervisor that will control what is done and how. In a dwelling you don't, unless you still a kid and live with your parents. even in a motel there would be some control over maintenance and repairs. In a commercial environment most power panel are kept away from every day staff, or in the case of a motel, in a locked power room. as these types of installations require that any type of service or repair would be under supervision. In a dwelling well we know what happens there.
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Where in article 100 does it say anything about any of that? :confused:

It is a short definition and I do not see that it excludes commercial properties. :confused:
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

Posted the other day that firmly I believed that the fire house would be considered a dwelling for obvious reasons,
after listening to others it has made me reconsider my inital feeling towads this issue,

Have checked other web sites to gather information on this issue and asked others at work about what they thought,

Still not sure what the real answer is but, as to argue a issue that I do not have all the facts for and base this upon just how I feel about is not right............It has as at least steered me towards being more openmind..........we learn a lot from others if we listen to what they have to say ............to the ones who don't listen....oh well !

The opposing responses are appreciated and the information well accepted.
 
Re: KITCHEN COUNTER SPACE RECEPTACLES

You do have a valid point there.But i just can't see them saying ,hey boss can i make some chilly in a crock pot while bill is heating some spam in the electric skillet.The supervisor should be overseeing things like maintenance on fire engine.Overseeing what they cook ,maybe ?
 
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