kitchen island outlets

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Re: kitchen island outlets

How about an exception to the requiement? Such as "if building design affords the ability to add a receptacle in the future, this receptacle can be ommitted." That way a homeowner who wants a receptacle can have it, those who don't will not. I've had many customers who want to make sure they have an island receptacle. I know this would never fly, but just a thought. If there were a j-box in an island ready to go for a future receptacle, wouldn't everyone be happy? I guess until homeowner 1 doesn't want it, next buyer installs it, third buyer doesn't want it...back to dangerous situation.

Seems like we need documented substantiated information on which scenario has caused more accidents, with proposal for 2011. [/QB][/QUOTE]


I have seen such an install,Floor receptacle where an optional kitchen island goes (it was on 20 a gfci circuit)inspector looked at it,looked at me,looked down again,shrugged his shoulders and moved on.
Not within the 18 ins. that would make it a required outlet,not on a wall or countertop so for what it was for didn`t matter since no island installed.
I asked the CM later and he explained to me the wife liked the island but said that at times it would be in the way.So they paid for a floor box.Bought the cabinet from the cabinet company as part of the kitchen package and the hubby was going to install locking casters on the bottom..
My guess is that he would wire the island and plug it in when wanted.Not our responsibility nor the CM`S,all on mr H/O`S shoulders.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

"As a side note, my kitchen, built 10 years ago, has both an island and peninsula. Neither has a receptacle.

Passed inspection."


Last Thursday the "top dog" from NYS Codes Division had this comment for the inspectors in the room who were inspecting according to their own personal opinions, as opposed to the actual code wording.

We are not here today to listen to your personal opinions and how they should be enforced, but to learn the code and enforce it as it is written. If you cannot enforce it as written, and choose to keep enforcing your opinion, you no longer will have job. (I paraphrased this)

I say that inspectors who enforce their own ideas (whether good or bad) are doing the wrong thing.

For those who would like to put a proposal to the CMP, use the cases stated here as substantiation, also I believe there is an ongoing case now in NJ where a child was burned by a pot pulled down from the island countertop. Try to google that case as well - good luck, you never know until you try it.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Remember those bumper cars with the big ol' truck intertube wrapped around the driver. Why don't we all drive around in those. Get in a freeway pile up, sue, that was fun. And anybody who tried to sue saying it wasn't fun you'd know would be lying, so it's an automatic perjury conviction.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Is this thing still going?. I told you in the begining, just slap some wheels on the bottom of it, unless it has a sink or an oven you are in business. If it is still considered a kitchen island, roll it out to the living room for a few hours and its a living room island. Even better idea - rig up a hydralic lift and a platform under it. Have it slide down into the basement and an automatic floor slides over the hole. Set up a contactor, press a button and presto - kitchen Island, no kitchen island, just like James Bond movies.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Do we even need to slap on the wheels? If it's not screwed down, how is it any different that the kitchen table? I see islands for sale in furniture stores which presumably are portable. In fact someone who works for me just bought one for his new house. It's about 4' long with a butcherblock top. It's beautiful. Better looking that many I've seen permanently installed. The only difference that I see is that he did not screw it in place, and would take it with him if he moved.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by pierre:
We are not here today to listen to your personal opinions and how they should be enforced, but to learn the code and enforce it as it is written. If you cannot enforce it as written, and choose to keep enforcing your opinion, you no longer will have job.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a man on a mission! That's good to hear. :)

I think a kitchen Island is an excellent place to have a receptacle, very convenient. I also think they should be required, I think their presence avoids more accidents then they create.

Children shouldn't be anywhere near hot grease wether it's heated by electric or gas or any other source for that matter.

I think these types of accidents are simply caused by adults doing dangerous activities while using very little caution. Like lighting off fireworks... When done cautiously, their efforts are rewarded, but when done carelessly, things can get real ugly real quick.

It should not even be possible for a small child to come anywhere even close to a situation like that. Very sorry to hear it happens though. :(

Dave
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by macmikeman:
Set up a contactor, press a button and presto - kitchen Island, no kitchen island, just like James Bond movies.
Click to expand...
I think I missed that one. Was that "The Man With The Golden Oven Mitt," "From Kitchen WIth Love," "Octocookie," "Goldenrye," or "Dr. No-Soup-For-You!"?
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

As I stated earlier,a child as Dave has also said has no place in a kitchen while cooking is going on.I have a son 30 in july that was never allowed in the kitchen as food was prepared.My 2 girls 9 & 11 both know when to get away from the stove.They don`t fear it but allot like electricity they respect it and what it can do.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by davedottcom:


I think these types of accidents are simply caused by adults doing dangerous activities while using very little caution. Like lighting off fireworks... When done cautiously, their efforts are rewarded, but when done carelessly, things can get real ugly real quick.
Click to expand...
That is one funny statement.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by georgestolz:I think I missed that one. Was that "The Man With The Golden Oven Mitt," "From Kitchen WIth Love," "Octocookie," "Goldenrye," or "Dr. No-Soup-For-You!"?
Click to expand...
You left out a few:</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You Only Bake Twice</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Live and Let Eat</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Cook Who Loved Me</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For Your Plate Only</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">License to Grill</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gold Vienna Finger</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thunderbelly</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fry Another Day</font>
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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Moon Pie Raker</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A View to a Grill</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On Her Majesty's Saut? Service</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Liver Daylights</font>
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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tomorrow Never Fries.</font>
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Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by davedottcom:


I think these types of accidents are simply caused by adults doing dangerous activities while using very little caution. Like lighting off fireworks... When done cautiously, their efforts are rewarded, but when done carelessly, things can get real ugly real quick.
Click to expand...
That is one funny statement.
Click to expand...
I know we definately disagree Scott, I won't even try to change your mind, we would both be wasting our time. Just opinions.
:)

George, Octo-cookie! :D
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Dave I just thought the fireworks when used cautiously part was funny. To me, always dangerous. Anyway I respect your opinion and I don't expect you or anyone else to change it for me. :)
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Originally posted by jimwalker:
If we must have outlets for an island then why not have a hole for cords to go thru and eliminate the danger ?
Click to expand...
Sounds good to me. Now we just need a code change to make receptacles in the cabinets count as the required ones.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Not suggesting it be in the cabinet.Just put it in same place as before but permit us to run the cord thru the counter top.Now nothing will be pulled off the top.Actually we don't even need a code change to allow the hole,just to use it.This now leaves it up to the customer to be smart.
 
Re: kitchen island outlets

Does the NEC language actually say that the required receptacle can't be in the cabinet??
It just has to be within 12" of the top
I'm not sure having to open a cabinet door would render it not "readily accessible"

If you look at the language used in the exception for the required bathroom receptacle they use the words " side or face of the basin cabinet".

No such language in the exception for 210.52(C) (5)

I don't think 400.8 would be a problem either.

I'm told if the NEC doesn't prohibit ,... then it is O.K.

So why not just use a fancy brass bushing in the hole drilled in that fancy marble top ??
 
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