Labor units for PVC in trench

Status
Not open for further replies.
jmsbrush said:
MULE, you have to understand that these labor units are coming from industry standards. Neca and other books. Lets say you are bidding a commercial building. We will take a small example. Lets say you have 40 20' tall parking lot lights. You are going to have to be able to give an accurate bid on that. You are not just going to guess at it. You will use programs and you will use books to figure out how long it will take. This will make you a very good estimator.
If you quote a job at 2400 man hours ,Have a contract signed and you finish the job at 2300 hours. Are you going to give the guy a credit? No! If you have 90 days to complete the job and it takes you 105 days to complete at $350.00 per day penalty because you underbid or weather or any other thing held you up. Do you think they will be lenient on you? Nope. To be honest with you I have 6 sources of labor units at my finger tips. So my $3000.00 product must be wrong right??? Because you can beat it.
I have had 100' pulls that I thought would only take x amount of time and it took 2 to 3 times as long.

When you start estimating you will have to start trusting something and tweak it to you're liking and the skill level that works for you. In general the programs and book are close to each other.

There's a saying " the better an estimator I become the less jobs I'm awarded"!
Think about that there is allot of truth in that statement!
Goodnight everyone
Click to expand...

No I did not see this post, and I dont take your information lightely, but I have read on this forum where so figures are sometimes way off. But in no way am I being dis-respectfull of you trying to help me.....I just cant get over that 40 hrs......straight run.....80 pieces of stick together pipe and 4 wires....WOW


Here's a additional thought ......Alot of you guys seem to be very impacted by non payments and signing contracts, and I fully understand. But I just want to say Im very thankfull I live in a area, where generally speaking, a man's word and/or hand shake is pretty meaningfull. This particular customer just lost her husband a week ago, lives just down the road from my folks, Ive known her forever, and she would be offended if I asked her to sign....AND Further more.....Im the type that when Im working with people like this and my cost comes in under the quote, I revert to T/M and only charge for that......call me crazy....but thats just how I operate.
 
Last edited:
Mule said:
Ok, Im nieve here....so these cost data figures are average numbers it took "joe blow" to intall the selected items? how do they arrive at those figures?
Click to expand...
The man hours usually assume "good conditions" (no debris, other trades in the way, weather fair, etc) - any deviation is an increase in the labor units.
The actual labor units.

Some programs have allowances for "non productive" help, ie...supervision (which may/may not include things like documentation, bookkeeping, etc)- some don't. You need to know what your program includes AND doesn't.



This manual is a guide to the cost of installing electrical work in buildings. It lists costs to the electrical subcontractor for a wide variety of electrical work.

Before using any estimate in this book, you should understand an important point about estimating electrical construction costs. Estimating is an art, not a science. There is no estimate that fits all work. The manhour estimates in this book will be accurate for many jobs. But no two crews will complete all tasks in exactly the same time. And no two jobs are identical. That's why electrical cost estimating requires an exercise of judgment. Every estimate has to be custom-made for the job, the crew and the contractor. No estimating reference, no computerized cost estimating system, no estimating service can consider all the variables that make every job unique.

This book is not intended as a replacement for well-informed judgment. But when supplemented with an estimator's professional evaluation, the figures in this manual will be a good aid in developing an informed opinion of the cost of electrical systems.


The labor hours in this book are intended to be typical of what a trained and motivated journeyman electrician with five years of experience will do on most jobs. Of course, it's assumed that the installer can read and follow plans and specifications and has the ability to lay out the work so that it complies with the code.

It shouldn't make any difference whether the work is in a hospital, a grocery store, a wood mill or a small convenience store. An experienced journeyman electrician should be able to handle the work at the rates shown here even though the materials and code requirements differ. But you'll have to make allowances if your installers are familiar with residential work only, and the job at hand is something else.
Click to expand...
This is just the tip of the iceberg....what I put in bold is of extreme importance ~ just look at the few numbers already tossed out here....all close, but which one is "right".
 
celtic said:
The man hours usually assume "good conditions" (no debris, other trades in the way, weather fair, etc) - any deviation is an increase in the labor units.
The actual labor units.

Some programs have allowances for "non productive" help, ie...supervision (which may/may not include things like documentation, bookkeeping, etc)- some don't. You need to know what your program includes AND doesn't.




This is just the tip of the iceberg....what I put in bold is of extreme importance ~ just look at the few numbers already tossed out here....all close, but which one is "right".
Click to expand...
I have this book as well:wink: Good night fellows
 
Mule said:
.....I just cant get over that 40 hrs......straight run.....80 pieces of stick together pipe and 4 wires....WOW
Click to expand...

Q:
Does the numbers jmbrush show include for:
- material handeling
- mobilization/demobilization
- inspections
- job clean up
- etc.

So while it may seem that 40hrs is a magnificent number, it may not be.

Here's a ? for you Mule:
How long does the average service swap take using these assumptions:
- Job to be inspected
- Home occupied (at least "lived-in")
- 15' SE from meter to weatherhead
- 10' from meter to main/panel
- panel in basement
- all grounding needs updating (2 rods, etc)
- less than 30 ckts (skip the AFCI fiascos)
- conditions "good"

Typical, no?
 
celtic said:
Q:
Does the numbers jmbrush show include for:
- material handeling
- mobilization/demobilization
- inspections
- job clean up
- etc.

So while it may seem that 40hrs is a magnificent number, it may not be.

Here's a ? for you Mule:
How long does the average service swap take using these assumptions:
- Job to be inspected
- Home occupied (at least "lived-in")
- 15' SE from meter to weatherhead
- 10' from meter to main/panel
- panel in basement
- all grounding needs updating (2 rods, etc)
- less than 30 ckts (skip the AFCI fiascos)
- conditions "good"

Typical, no?
Click to expand...

This job is way more involved than I disclosed, I just asked for the pipe and wire 800ft.....Im not that dumb....give me a break...;) but thanks to all of you trying to educate me...
 
celtic said:
That may be open for debate :grin:

How about the second Q ?
Click to expand...

That's ok....Im a big boy....everyone thinks if you dont do it their way, you must change.......for me, Im learning alot from this forum,and enjoying the fellowship....but, dont forget Ive been in this trade for over 30 years, this is the second time Ive been a contractor as well. Ive been a contractor, electrician, instrument man, foreman, I & E supervisor, estimator, and a inspector.....amd a plans reviewer....So while I may be behind in some big city ways, Its not my first rodeo
 
Mule said:
That's ok....Im a big boy....everyone thinks if you dont do it their way, you must change.......for me, Im learning alot from this forum,and enjoying the fellowship....
Click to expand...

I'm here to learn too...most of us are....but all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy :grin: A little fun in class doesn't hurt....

Mule said:
....So while I may be behind in some big city ways, Its not my first rodeo
Click to expand...

..but are you the bull, the cowboy or the clown? ;)
 
celtic said:
That may be open for debate :grin:

How about the second Q ?
Click to expand...

and for the second question....I bet I can have that 800ft line laid and pulled sooner than I can build that typical service you spoke of...:smile:
 
Mule said:
and for the second question....I bet I can have that 800ft line laid and pulled sooner than I can build that typical service you spoke of...:smile:
Click to expand...


Sure...it's a bet.
Now who will be the impartial judge and what do I win?
 
I read the thread. Only thing I can recommend to make this easier for you and the tugger( big apprentice) is this big bends. Big radius bends, even if with a hickey, will save a back, and time, for other things that day.
 
Mule said:
Here's a additional thought ......Alot of you guys seem to be very impacted by non payments and signing contracts, and I fully understand. But I just want to say Im very thankfull I live in a area, where generally speaking, a man's word and/or hand shake is pretty meaningfull. This particular customer just lost her husband a week ago, lives just down the road from my folks, Ive known her forever, and she would be offended if I asked her to sign....
Click to expand...


A contract is not just to make sure you can collect from dead beats. A proper contract also protects the customer. Every consumer protection group in America will advise a customer to get a signed contract. You really should attempt to educate your customers to never have work done by anyone without a signed contract. You don't intend to cheat the customer and she doesn't intend to cheat you and that's great but that doesn't mean the next fast talking, smooth operator that comes down the road won't try to take advantage of her.

Do this lady a favor and advise her to get signed contracts and lien waivers for all work that is done on her property to protect herself. If she calls her lawyer he will tell her the same thing. You don't get an 800 ft run of conduit to a gate opener unless you have some money so show her how to protect it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top