I have a job installing a landscpe lighting system at a home and the question came up about running low voltage wiring through the basement so that all the transformers could be mounted in one location. I have 2 600w trans and was going to use 10/2 landscape wiring to run from the trans to the fixtures. I checked the code book but I can't find anything that indicates this can't be done. The only thing that worries me is that there is a higher amp on the low volt cable and would it be safer to run this in pipe?
Landscape lighting transformer and wiring
- Thread starter btruppel
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Put the transformer as close to the load as you can.
600 watts at 24 volts is 25 amps.
600 watts at 12 volts is 50 amps.
You will have some serious voltage drop issues using 10 AWG for any distance if the transformers are anywhere near loaded.
600 watts at 24 volts is 25 amps.
600 watts at 12 volts is 50 amps.
You will have some serious voltage drop issues using 10 AWG for any distance if the transformers are anywhere near loaded.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
btruppel said:
There is no need to run it in conduit. You may want to sleeve it where it comes thru the foundation or where irt is exposed outside but in the crawl you are fine.
As Bob said watch the VD. I suspect you have a 600 watt transformer but there are usually 2- 300 watt terminals so that combined it is 600. I have usued #8 cable for long heavily loaded runs.
L
Lxnxjxhx
Guest
a different take
a different take
I put in one of these. 10 bulbs came in the package. I didn't use all of them, which means the poorly regulated xformer was putting higher voltage on the few bulbs I did use, which means they wouldn't last long. As each bulb burns out, the stress on the others increases.
So I put a low ohm hi watt resistor in series with the xformer. The instructions were silent on using less bulbs than were supplied, but a voltmeter told the story.
a different take
I put in one of these. 10 bulbs came in the package. I didn't use all of them, which means the poorly regulated xformer was putting higher voltage on the few bulbs I did use, which means they wouldn't last long. As each bulb burns out, the stress on the others increases.
So I put a low ohm hi watt resistor in series with the xformer. The instructions were silent on using less bulbs than were supplied, but a voltmeter told the story.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Lxnxjxhx said:
Just the kind of thing we trades people find from 'Handy-persons'. :roll: :grin:
Perhaps buying a better quality transformer would have been a better option?
So there is no code issue with using landscape cable inside a home to run from trans to outside fixtures?All the wiring would be run through seperate drilled holes in the joists and there would be about 50' inside before it exits the house. And to clear up any confussion, the only reason the trans are inside is because there is no place to mount the trans outside that wouldn't be seen from the back patio and I am not using those junk trans form Home Depot. We have all Kichler lighting and Kichler trans for this project and Kichlers trans are not small in size($). These trans can be mounted inside according to Kichler as long as the unit has an indoor mounting plate.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
btruppel said:
I do believe these wires cannot be concealed--art 411.4
L
Lxnxjxhx
Guest
better quality transformer
better quality transformer
Customer wanted the Home Despot model.
The short lamp life due to the poorly regulated transformer was one of the "hidden costs of ownership." They probably also scrimped on the wire insulation quality but I can't judge that.
But I wouldn't call this product a "scam." You did get what you paid for. It passes the implied merchantibility test and they never stated a product service lifetime.
In effect, this resistor out of an old TV or hifi set was my way of thumbing my nose at Home Despot and the product marketing people who conveniently left out any mention of lamp life vs. the number of lamps used, and helping my customer/friend at the same time. At 12vac, I can't imagine a realistic and plausible danger.
Related: due to whistleblowing activities that I might have taken part in, I had to work for a while in a hardware store that sold many things, including solid brass hardware, and magnets. I quickly found that some of the "solid" brass hardware was attracted to magnets.
This time I told a manager and let it go at that. They continued to sell these products.
For all this stuff, did I do the
right thing for the right reason?
wrong thing for the right reason?
right thing for the wrong reason?
wrong thing for the wrong reason?
Dunno'.
better quality transformer
Customer wanted the Home Despot model.
The short lamp life due to the poorly regulated transformer was one of the "hidden costs of ownership." They probably also scrimped on the wire insulation quality but I can't judge that.
But I wouldn't call this product a "scam." You did get what you paid for. It passes the implied merchantibility test and they never stated a product service lifetime.
In effect, this resistor out of an old TV or hifi set was my way of thumbing my nose at Home Despot and the product marketing people who conveniently left out any mention of lamp life vs. the number of lamps used, and helping my customer/friend at the same time. At 12vac, I can't imagine a realistic and plausible danger.
Related: due to whistleblowing activities that I might have taken part in, I had to work for a while in a hardware store that sold many things, including solid brass hardware, and magnets. I quickly found that some of the "solid" brass hardware was attracted to magnets.
This time I told a manager and let it go at that. They continued to sell these products.
For all this stuff, did I do the
right thing for the right reason?
wrong thing for the right reason?
right thing for the wrong reason?
wrong thing for the wrong reason?
Dunno'.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Be advised that most of the "Home Depot" type LV lighting transformers say clearly "for outdoor use only". They cannot be mounted indoors. The better ones will specifically say "for indoor or outdoor use".
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
They can if in a wiring method from chapter 3 - say 'conduit'....Dennis Alwon said:
As for wire size - depending on how it is run you could do #10. But that means you have calc'd voltage drop for each run according to load and length and brought multiple (many) runs back to the transformer - each lightly loaded. Your could/should not daisy chain tap from a single #10.... And if bringing many runs back - many higher end transformers will have multiple tap voltages so you can boost a few of the longer runs. (Say 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 - and the idea is it to get 11.5 - 12.5 out at the lamp.) A long run with some load might be 15v at the transformer, but 12v 60' away...
Landscape ltg cable
Landscape ltg cable
No you cannot run typical landscape lighting cable inside the house. The cable has to be rated for 600 volts in a house. There is a landscape lighting cable available (unsure of the type) that is approved for indoor use but it is not readily available. I guess you can run romex to a point outside and use a junction box on the exterior of the house.
Landscape ltg cable
No you cannot run typical landscape lighting cable inside the house. The cable has to be rated for 600 volts in a house. There is a landscape lighting cable available (unsure of the type) that is approved for indoor use but it is not readily available. I guess you can run romex to a point outside and use a junction box on the exterior of the house.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
vjmac887 said:
Please tell me where you got this info. I believe it is incorrect. If the wiring is not concealed then it is not an issue.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Dennis Alwon said:
Dennis I am not sure, I am really asking.
Would outdoor landscape light wire be OK inside, would that be following the manufacturers directions? 411.3(A)or(B) and 110.3(B)?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
Well all I can say is UF is allowed inside so why would outdoor low voltage cable be a problem. I guess there could be some issue with the wire like some USE cable has that it is not allowed inside but I have never seen anything in writting that says no. Generally I have mounted the transformers in a crawl space but occasionally I mount one in a basement. I can't loose sleep over it and I will do it until someone shows me I can't. :grin:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Dennis Alwon said:
LV cables are not UF cables.
I can't show you your instructions:smile: , do the instructions say the cable can be used inside?
Besides, it's not about what you do, it's about the NEC as that is what the OP is asking about. :smile:
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Typically the wiring that comes with the landscape wiring packages is labeled "DB", is a black 2-wire cable with fairly heavy insulation. That wiring method is not permitted to be installed within a building, as it is listed for outdoor use only...it is a very toxic cable when involved with a fire.
I think I have a picture of what I am trying to describe...let me look for it.
I think I have a picture of what I am trying to describe...let me look for it.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
This is true but I thought you wre asking if it is outdoor cable could it be used inside. UF is often referred to as outdoor cable but it is used indoor. I am aware of the differences.:smile:iwire said:
I must say I have never seen instructions that came with the LV cable. It would have to say outdoor only as Pierre has stated. If that is the case then I be wrong again.:grin:
True, I did not say I didn't care about code I was saying until I was shown otherwise, since I have never seen anything to suggest I cannot do this, I would continue to do so-- there's a big difference. The NEC is mute on the issue as far as I can see other than using the product to manufacturers specs. As I have said I have not seen that. Perhaps Pierre can help here.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Here are a couple of pictures, the best I can do, based on the fact that my picture folders/files have grown so big that locating pictures has become time consuming.
This picture is of a landscaper's install of a landscape lighting panel and the "DB" cable installed within the house.
(Try not to look at the rest of the mess here in this picture)
This picture is the cable itself.
(the picture quality is not that good, but I think you can see what I am trying to explain)
This picture is of a landscaper's install of a landscape lighting panel and the "DB" cable installed within the house.
(Try not to look at the rest of the mess here in this picture)
This picture is the cable itself.
(the picture quality is not that good, but I think you can see what I am trying to explain)
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Pierre that picture is fine but that does not let us know it is not code compliant. I would be interested in some documentation if you have. I will check my cables also and call the manufacturers.
- Status